Alright Cygnus, because you asked..
{DOU}Cygnus wrote:OrangUtang wrote:No matter where you go, not even inside Unreal Tournament, people will find loopholes if the rules aren't clear. The example Ivor-Bigone had written down is one of these: you will almost always find a kick from an admin from the server when you leave your x-loc out, but the rules don't state it's illegal to put your x-loc out. It states it's illegal to put your x-loc out to hunt for frags or otherwise get a frag.
"it's illegal to put your x-loc out to hunt for frags or otherwise get a frag."
So where's the loophole? It say's it all right there.
You missed the last sentence of that part, it said:
OrangUtang wrote:The example Ivor-Bigone had written down is one of these: you will almost always find a kick from an admin from the server when you leave your x-loc out, but the rules don't state it's illegal to put your x-loc out. It states it's illegal to put your x-loc out to hunt for frags or otherwise get a frag. (This <------- is open for interpretation).
Let me break it down for you right here.
No dropping trans to hunt or otherwise get a frag. This has come up many times recently and been the cause of many problems.
Players that drop their trans disc to hunt will be kicked.
There is a difference. You can leave your x-loc out as an 'offensive' way to play and 'defensive' way of play.
Offensive:
- Leaving your x-loc out and go to another part of the room/map to find other people. This is called hunting or Run 'n Gunning. (I'm sure you would agree, right?).
Defensive:
- Leaving your x-loc out and find boots, armour, health.
- Leaving your x-loc out (for example behind a picture in 3ommiesResort) and camp next to the picture, moving back behind the picture when getting shot.
If you want to define 'Run and Gun', then we could simply say it's moving with the intention to find frags. Notice I don't use the word 'hunt' here, because 'hunting' is open for interpretation. One may find someone 'hunting' a way different definition than some one else.
Here's a definition for you, taken from a Ladder on FraggedNation.com:
Running and Gunning (RnG) and Hunting are defined as follows:
[*]No run and gun play: Run and Gun and Hunting are defined as excessive movement and/or transing with the intent to find opponents instead of trying to get to a sniper spot.
[*]Constant swirly hopping is considered excessive movement.
[*]You have to camp for at least 2min (of course you can camp the whole map at one spot) in a spot without movement. Anyone moving without circumstance will be penalized for excessive movement.
[*]IF you decide to move you have 10seconds to trans/stealth/run to another spot or you will be penalized for excessive movement.
As you can see:
- First a definition
- Then a time-table for it (less than 2min in one spot is excessive movement)
- Then a set time-table for the max. movement (so you don't trans all the way to another room/part of the map.
And then it goes on with legal movement (legal movement is where a player like (link:)
-=SoP=-Medic has been banned for):
Circumstantial movement is legal and defined as:
* You have shot and killed a sniper and feel your spot is jeopardized/in danger.
* You just finished a shoot-out, close or far, and your enemy has fled his spot.
* A spawner has discovered your position accidentally, left, and you feel your spot is in danger.
* You are under fire and must move for protection and in search of another camping spot.
* You have camped a spot for at least two minutes, it's totally unproductive and you feel this won't change on its own.
* Large map with multiple rooms, game moving slow and unproductive, plus the 2 minute time gauge.
* Large map, 4v4, and the game is slow and unproductive, plus the 2 minute time gauge.
* Instructed to do so by ref
{DOU}Cygnus wrote:I think our rules as stated are fine.
The only people who have problems with them are the type of players who are trying to push the intent of the rules to the limits and beyond. They understand the sprit of our rules but are trying to find ways around them to suit their R&G style. (..)
(I intentionally didn't use the last part of your quote for my next part because it was irrelevant).
What is Hunting? What is Spawn-Killing? What is Run and Gunning? It's not written in your rules, so it must be open for interpretation. And as you say, the rules are fine the way they are. So when I move to another spot because I'm getting shot/under heavy attack, I must be Run and Gunning. You can ban about 70% of the experienced UT-player if that's the case, because most of them aren't a sitting duck when they get shot, they go duck into cover (and that is running/transing so it must be RnG).
Based on your rules it's allowed to image-drop, abuse the HideNPeek (like some {DOU}-members do), spawn-kill with a deemer, hog the deemer-spot (like some {DOU}members do), etc. because the rules are fine the way they are.
As you can see I'm only trying to be the Devils Advocate here, I'm trying to put the rules under your nose and say 'Hey, you're really sure they're OK the way they are?'.
If you don't want to put it in a small novel, fine. But don't say some people are abusing the fact that the rules aren't clear. Turn it the other way around: The rules aren't clear enough and that's why people may find loopholes.
to all.