Sup yall,
Interesting article I came across.
http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-att ... 321913.php
Build youraself a MAC and make Tommy happy
Build youraself a MAC and make Tommy happy
{DOU}pebcak
I love the sound of "GODLIKE" in the morning.
I love the sound of "GODLIKE" in the morning.
Maybe but they are smart not to try and attempt it.Draco wrote:I haven't found anything! It seems that if the hacked image was there, it surely isn't now. I'll keep digging. I'll let ya know if I find anything. I think Apple would definitely rule the market for a time if they just sold the OSX for PC. Have a good one.
-Johnny Jones
Ever since OS X came out people have said this and Apple's response always was "Apple is primarily a hardware company."
If they did sell the OS for the PC too then all the Mac people would purchase the cheaper PC hardware and Apple's hardware business would go down the toilet.
Some people would try to argue that it's O.K. since they would make so much money from the OS sales. And in the beginning that might be true. But in the long run the opposite would be true. Apple would become a tiny little OS company and would never recover.
Remember the powerhouse that was Atari? They dropped their hardware and focused on software only. They are still in business (in name only I think as of like 2 years ago) but nothing near what they used to be.
So Apple is definitely doing the right thing.
A warning to those of you who decide to do this. Apple has proprietary chips on their motherboards. They keep what is in these chips a closely guarded secret. This is why in order to run OS X on a PC you have to wait for someone to hack the chips and see what is in them and how the OS is calling the chips. As such, if you do in fact do this, never upgrade the OS until you know there is a fix for whatever Apple did in the OS patch. You may install the upgrade, reboot as required, and then find that your machine is not rebooting and is in effect dead again. And I would not be surprised to find Apple doing this on purpose with every OS upgrade (although I don't know this to be the case).
Tommy
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QwazyWabbit
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:15 am
- Location: Southern California, USA
Religion aside, the statement "Apple is primarily a hardware company", is correct. What makes them cool to their followers is the styling of the hardware. Their software mostly sux.
OS X at its core is BSD Unix. As such it is semi-open or even OpenBSD Linux. The Unix-Linux pedegree of OS can be "hacked" to run on any platform. This is probably what the osx86 group is doing. There are now so many different flavors of Linux out there the hardest job is to figure out which one to choose to run this week. Don't worry, next week there will be 10 more. It would be more productive to run ANY version of Linux on your PC hardware than any version of OS X. Simply because everything you need would be Open and much less likely to break because you downloaded an update from Apple.
The OS X user interface mostly sux, IMNSHO. Especially on big screens like my 20 inch iMac. Example, the menu bar for any application is always at the top border. If your mouse is at the bottom of the screen you have roll that puppy across your desk like a madman to get it to the top. Don't tell me to adjust the mouse sensitivity, I have the thing set at max everything and nothing helps. I finally got smart and put on a Logitech V450 wireless mouse and it has enough sensitivity to satisfy me. (But don't install the drivers for the V450, they kill the ballistics and they don't even monitor the battery condition of the mouse like they do in the Windows version.) The iMac mouse with it's pea size trackball sits unused and will likely be disconnected as soon as I decide it's better to have the open USB port than the extra mouse. It's ergonomically inept anyway. The keyboard also sticks and is hard to type on rapidly. I have a light touch and while the keyboard is artistically pleasing to look at it feels like you are pounding the keys to get anything done. Back to the OS, on Windows and Linux you can grab any border of any resizeable window and drag it to resize the window. Not so with OS X, you have to grab the serrated corner to do that. Then it resizes in 2 dimensions, where a border drag was all I needed to resize in one dimension. This annoys me no end.
Another problem is window creation, an application that opens multiple documents splatters them all over the desktop. I spend more time shuffling them around than I do interacting with them. The command-tab key combo won't let you choose which document you want to go back to, they are not listed, you have to remember what application they are, tab to it, then select the window from that application's window list or click on the window you want to interact with because they all showed up at once.
The dock has magnify because when they went to larger screens the teensy icons disappeared.
iSync is buggy and if you leave it running and never restart your iMac it slowly consumes more and more memory until you have nearly zero free RAM and you have to kill the process in Process Monitor or reboot.
The only thing cool about OS X is widgets, I love my world clock and weather widgets and the Cal. ISO power grid monitor.
XCode, the code development IDE is cool but Visual Studio is much better at getting you to the documentation you need when writing applications. There are now so many OS X "Frameworks" with informative names like Darwin, Carbon, Cocoa, Quartz, IOKit (gee, a clue) and other jazzy names that you can never be sure which ones to add to your project.
In VS, I click on a function name to place the cursor anywhere on the item, hit F1, the documentation is searched for that item and if it is a library function the definition and interface comes up in the browser.
In XCode, you have to double click the item to select the entire word, then hit f1, then choose from the over-broad Searchlight list, the definition I am seeking - if I can decide which definition is relevant.
OS patches are nearly a weekly event. Lots of problems being patched without much explanation about what they are for or why I need them. Especially iTunes and Quicktime. Lots and lots of changes there. Many patches require the system be restarted. (Lately, almost every update requires a system reboot.) So much for the vaunted claims that OS X patches are "seamless" and never need a forced reboot. (This was always an argument used against Windows patches.) Lots of patches for Leopard too, including the latest one and the fiasco about the application firewall. Expect more of the same. OS X Leopard, a totally new set of bugs to work on in place of fixing Tiger. It's all about the bling. I have done at least two BIOS flash updates. They don't call it a BIOS, but that's functionally what it is. Flash RAM updates require a complete power down and restart of the system and a very scarey period of watching the rotating wedges wonering if it's ever going to come back up.
When I bought my iMac the kid selling me the thing was telling me about his iMac, and how it was up for almost 30 days and he was ignoring the patches because he wanted to see how long he could keep it up without a reboot. I told him my Windows XP system had been up for almost 3 months without a patch reboot and he almost called me a liar. I told him my Linux Fedora machine was up for 7 months and his eyes vibrated. He sold me the iMac anyway.
OS X at its core is BSD Unix. As such it is semi-open or even OpenBSD Linux. The Unix-Linux pedegree of OS can be "hacked" to run on any platform. This is probably what the osx86 group is doing. There are now so many different flavors of Linux out there the hardest job is to figure out which one to choose to run this week. Don't worry, next week there will be 10 more. It would be more productive to run ANY version of Linux on your PC hardware than any version of OS X. Simply because everything you need would be Open and much less likely to break because you downloaded an update from Apple.
The OS X user interface mostly sux, IMNSHO. Especially on big screens like my 20 inch iMac. Example, the menu bar for any application is always at the top border. If your mouse is at the bottom of the screen you have roll that puppy across your desk like a madman to get it to the top. Don't tell me to adjust the mouse sensitivity, I have the thing set at max everything and nothing helps. I finally got smart and put on a Logitech V450 wireless mouse and it has enough sensitivity to satisfy me. (But don't install the drivers for the V450, they kill the ballistics and they don't even monitor the battery condition of the mouse like they do in the Windows version.) The iMac mouse with it's pea size trackball sits unused and will likely be disconnected as soon as I decide it's better to have the open USB port than the extra mouse. It's ergonomically inept anyway. The keyboard also sticks and is hard to type on rapidly. I have a light touch and while the keyboard is artistically pleasing to look at it feels like you are pounding the keys to get anything done. Back to the OS, on Windows and Linux you can grab any border of any resizeable window and drag it to resize the window. Not so with OS X, you have to grab the serrated corner to do that. Then it resizes in 2 dimensions, where a border drag was all I needed to resize in one dimension. This annoys me no end.
Another problem is window creation, an application that opens multiple documents splatters them all over the desktop. I spend more time shuffling them around than I do interacting with them. The command-tab key combo won't let you choose which document you want to go back to, they are not listed, you have to remember what application they are, tab to it, then select the window from that application's window list or click on the window you want to interact with because they all showed up at once.
The dock has magnify because when they went to larger screens the teensy icons disappeared.
iSync is buggy and if you leave it running and never restart your iMac it slowly consumes more and more memory until you have nearly zero free RAM and you have to kill the process in Process Monitor or reboot.
The only thing cool about OS X is widgets, I love my world clock and weather widgets and the Cal. ISO power grid monitor.
XCode, the code development IDE is cool but Visual Studio is much better at getting you to the documentation you need when writing applications. There are now so many OS X "Frameworks" with informative names like Darwin, Carbon, Cocoa, Quartz, IOKit (gee, a clue) and other jazzy names that you can never be sure which ones to add to your project.
In VS, I click on a function name to place the cursor anywhere on the item, hit F1, the documentation is searched for that item and if it is a library function the definition and interface comes up in the browser.
In XCode, you have to double click the item to select the entire word, then hit f1, then choose from the over-broad Searchlight list, the definition I am seeking - if I can decide which definition is relevant.
OS patches are nearly a weekly event. Lots of problems being patched without much explanation about what they are for or why I need them. Especially iTunes and Quicktime. Lots and lots of changes there. Many patches require the system be restarted. (Lately, almost every update requires a system reboot.) So much for the vaunted claims that OS X patches are "seamless" and never need a forced reboot. (This was always an argument used against Windows patches.) Lots of patches for Leopard too, including the latest one and the fiasco about the application firewall. Expect more of the same. OS X Leopard, a totally new set of bugs to work on in place of fixing Tiger. It's all about the bling. I have done at least two BIOS flash updates. They don't call it a BIOS, but that's functionally what it is. Flash RAM updates require a complete power down and restart of the system and a very scarey period of watching the rotating wedges wonering if it's ever going to come back up.
When I bought my iMac the kid selling me the thing was telling me about his iMac, and how it was up for almost 30 days and he was ignoring the patches because he wanted to see how long he could keep it up without a reboot. I told him my Windows XP system had been up for almost 3 months without a patch reboot and he almost called me a liar. I told him my Linux Fedora machine was up for 7 months and his eyes vibrated. He sold me the iMac anyway.
Hahahaha, yeah. Gotta love them die-hard windows guys. I use both OS's now, and from what I see, I was always right, OS X is good, windows blows.QwazyWabbit wrote:Religion aside, the statement "Apple is primarily a hardware company", is correct. What makes them cool to their followers is the styling of the hardware. Their software mostly sux.
T
T
My problem is that I am an OS whore. I have many 20-30gig hard drives laying around and I just reformat and install one of them anytime I get a crazy idea to try a new OS. I have tried every version of windows and many different Linux Distros. By far, I like the ease of use of Mandrake(I believe it is now Mandriva). That has to be the most user friendly for those who are leaving M$ for the first time. The only complaint I have is that the application makers forget that Windows isn't the only OS in the world. One thing I have noticed is that, since MS released that shiny turd Vista, it seems that Linux is becoming more popular. I guess people just don't like it all that much.
For the most part, I'm just interested in giving OSX a try. I would rather try it and see if I like it before spending $2200 on a Mac that only compares to a $1600 XPS in power. I'm crazy enough to actually buy one if the OS really blew me away.
I understand how Apple is the way they are. I work for the largest fire and Life-Safety company in the world and we manufacture our own product, install it, and service it. It is proprietary as hell just like Mac. The price tag is higher than our competitors but we claim it is because you get what you pay for. The truth is our product does exactly the same thing as everyone elses only goes about doing it in a different way.
Well, I've pretty much given up on the search for this sucker for the time being. I'll try later. Thanks Tommy, Wabbit, and Pebcak for the info. Have a good one.
-Johnny Jones
For the most part, I'm just interested in giving OSX a try. I would rather try it and see if I like it before spending $2200 on a Mac that only compares to a $1600 XPS in power. I'm crazy enough to actually buy one if the OS really blew me away.
I understand how Apple is the way they are. I work for the largest fire and Life-Safety company in the world and we manufacture our own product, install it, and service it. It is proprietary as hell just like Mac. The price tag is higher than our competitors but we claim it is because you get what you pay for. The truth is our product does exactly the same thing as everyone elses only goes about doing it in a different way.
Well, I've pretty much given up on the search for this sucker for the time being. I'll try later. Thanks Tommy, Wabbit, and Pebcak for the info. Have a good one.
-Johnny Jones
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QwazyWabbit
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:15 am
- Location: Southern California, USA
You cannot blow it away. There is no argument you can produce that will make the interface more usable to me nor is there any advice you can give that will make the mouse that comes with the iMac not suck.Tommy wrote:Lol, fair warning...I am going to destroy most of that. I have work to do right now, but I will get back to it later.
T
One either buys into the culture or not. The OS is what the OS is and by and large Mac users buy into it. Yes, Vista blows, big time. Everyone seems to think they impaired Windows in this release. There is also a very large uprising in the the OS X community against Leopard's impairement of what was a fairly usable Tiger. Don't look for objective opinions about Tiger or Leopard in the Apple forums. They are full of hype about how wonderful it is.
The main problem with Apple stuff (as you aptly described, Draco) is the customer gets locked in once he has the hardware. Now he has to get compatible hardware and software and he pays a premium for the stuff and the support. Is it more reliable or better? Probably not, more likely than not, computer peripherals for PC's and Macs are made side by side in the same off-shore plants.
Mac support in peripherals is secondary in any non-Apple product. They produce for the 90% share in Windows and the software is produced and tested in PC's and then usually the OS X software is outsourced to outfits that port the code to the Mac platform. This is why many applications appear on Linux and Mac after introduction to Windows. Mac-fans can't help it, the market is merely following the money.
I would encourage you to try OS X, you might decide you like it but if you are happy with Mandrake you probably won't like the inconveniences of OS X as I described. Mandrake is more like Windows than OS X. Spend some time in the Apple store playing with the OS, don't let them pressure you. Make them show you what the thing can do out of the box... and then make them show you how to do whatever task you have planned for it with the tools available out of the box or even downloaded online. I have found a lot of stuff online but the free stuff is mostly toys or immitations of what Windows or Linux or the truely useful, non-trivial programs are expensive to buy. Price Photoshop or Pagemaker on the PC and on the Mac, for instance.
Windows has had growing pains for decades but when you consider the diversity of the hardware it runs on and the compatibility problems the coders at Microsoft had to overcome it's a truely impressive accomplishment that it runs as well as it does.
Lately, when I use the Mac or Linux I have been to lazy to even rotate the chair around to the other desk where the Mac lives. I use WinVNC to connect to the Mac and use it from Windows, same thing for the Linux box, with a SSH session as well simply because it's faster and a lot of the stuff I do on the Linux system is command prompt stuff.... which brings me to my favorite rant about Linux and the constant dropping to a command shell because there is no easy GUI way to do some things. I am getting to an age where I can't remember some of those commands though.
I have a PPC, G5 on OS 9 that is sitting in the garage unused that a friend gave to me because he bought it to do graphics and web and video development and for compatibility with his printer's layout tools and they used macs, but now he does everything on his PC's and had no further use for macs.
I have no doubt Tommy's "destroying most of that" will be a litany of his problems and criticisms of Windows but just as my expectations are based on my familiarity with Windows, his expectations are colored by his experience with Mac OS. Mac OS X applications crash, and they barf up a dialog box about sending a report to Apple. Windows applications crash, and they barf up a dialog box about sending a report to Microsoft.
Where do you want to go today? It just works.
SS, DD.Well, I think I can. You bitched about the small icons in the dock. Just go to the dock control panel and increase their size.QwazyWabbit wrote:You cannot blow it away. There is no argument you can produce that will make the interface more usable to me nor is there any advice you can give that will make the mouse that comes with the iMac not suck.
Still busy, more later.
T
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QwazyWabbit
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:15 am
- Location: Southern California, USA
I wasn't bitching about the size of the dock, I was explaining why they had to add the magnifier for it. I found the dock tweaker in the control panel easily enough, but the whole idea that it was necessary was funny to me. Mostly I turn it off, because when I want to use VNC on it the animations get in the way because VNC can't keep up. Even on Linux clients VNC is graphically slow and a bandwidth junky.
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southpaw_decoy
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:36 pm
- Location: Goldsboro, NC
- Contact:
i downloaded the hacked patch a few weeks ago and have played around with it. i just got ethernet working but can't get sound. if you have an intel chip try this its what i used
copy and paste the following address
http://btmon.com/Applications/Mac/Mac_O ... 86.torrent
i have a dell dimension 4600
there are still problems getting it to run on non-mac hardware.
lots of searching for driver hacks and finding out what hardware will be recognized and junk.
probably won't have much time to mess with it until after New Year's
let me know if that link works. i used bit torrent to download it. it depends on how many people are seeding as to how long it takes to download.
copy and paste the following address
http://btmon.com/Applications/Mac/Mac_O ... 86.torrent
i have a dell dimension 4600
there are still problems getting it to run on non-mac hardware.
lots of searching for driver hacks and finding out what hardware will be recognized and junk.
probably won't have much time to mess with it until after New Year's
let me know if that link works. i used bit torrent to download it. it depends on how many people are seeding as to how long it takes to download.
Thanks for the hook-up there, buddy. It installed like a charm and really didn't even seem to have driver issues. This much I can tell you about it: A Mac user could pssibly run Mandriva Linux and not even really notice the difference between the two. Mandriva is basically what OSX what would look like if Apple ever started selling just software packages. Having said that, I'll stay with Linux. Have a good one.southpaw_decoy wrote:i downloaded the hacked patch a few weeks ago and have played around with it. i just got ethernet working but can't get sound. if you have an intel chip try this its what i used
copy and paste the following address
http://btmon.com/Applications/Mac/Mac_O ... 86.torrent
i have a dell dimension 4600
there are still problems getting it to run on non-mac hardware.
lots of searching for driver hacks and finding out what hardware will be recognized and junk.
probably won't have much time to mess with it until after New Year's
let me know if that link works. i used bit torrent to download it. it depends on how many people are seeding as to how long it takes to download.
-Johnny Jones
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southpaw_decoy
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:36 pm
- Location: Goldsboro, NC
- Contact: