DOU/ZSZ

Otis_Firefly wrote: Hi everyone!

As I have just returned from a very nice and relaxing vacation in New Hampshire I unfortunately missed out on the drama in our forum that unfolded between our clan and ZSZ before the thread was locked. I don't know if I would have had anything to add to the thread itself really - as I am not directly involved except in regards to being a content DOU member and (part-time) admin on the server.

My thoughts on the thread itself and in regards to my personal relationship with some ZSZ members concerns me greatly as I have some really good friends in both clans. I played at ZSZ for years after SUF disbanded from which I was a member some 8-9 years ago. And since being a member of DOU have always been treated indiscriminately and welcomed by everyone over at ZSZ anytime - including but not limited to ED, Scay and a personal good friend DRR. It was my understanding when joining DOU that we entered the game with integrity and upheld the same expectations of all our members and guests on our server. It was also my understanding that we as a group not only promote - but adhere to the notion that we play in such a manor that everyone in game remains on the same "playing field" without an advantage over anyone else. I have never been aware of the idea of anyone playing our server or any other server using the what has now been deemed the "No Shadow Mod" in our clan as a whole. Acknowledging, accepting and agreeing with Cygnus's point of view that it is an in game option - if you will - therefore how can it be a mod or a cheat? On the flip-side of this notion - if some of us are as well as some of our guests using this config along with the idea of the behind view thing - is it not the same thing as dropping trans to use as an advantage over someone else? I've personally never used the thing - and it seems that it would give it's user a severe advantage over other players.

I guess my question here is - and solely to satisfy my own understanding of how we operate - do we as a clan view this as an advantage or do we promote the use of it in game by our members or guests? Again I am asking the question of the clan as a whole - not as separate individuals.

My second question is - do we as a clan welcome ZSZ players whomever they may be into our server indiscriminately or do we view them as foe?

Regards,

This post is exactly what I feel about this situation, my friendship with some ZSZ clan players, and the different doubts that represent for me the theme of the "shadow mod"... so I agree with the two questions of Otis also...

1. I have not let me in with the discussion about the No Shadow Mod, but did follow the thread with great interest. As I read Otis his post I think we should decide if it is a mod or a cheat. I already have a meaning about it, but like Otis said he is asking for a {DOU}opinion about it and not for us as separate individuals.

2. As a DOU member I personally will never regard another clan as a foe. Sometimes a separate member can be regarded as one, but never a clan as a whole in my opinion.

For the record...

It is not a hack, no lines of code in the game are altered.

It is not a tweak no code altered, nothing dowloaded.

It is not a mod, you don't download it from somewhere and install it.

It is a command entered into the control panel of the game. The control panel responds because it is built into the games design to do so. Anyone can use it. DOU did not invent it. There are other clans that have and still use it.

mAmA

I agree with Otis and Rmad, I played there for 2 1/2 years before i ever headshoted anyone on DOU, back when ZSZ actually had a somewhat crowded server. Many of the older member i am friends with, Lovemonkey, XYZ, Moosebreath, LoPro, regardless of the light stuff i really dont care, i use my video renderer and you use yours, doesnt really bother me as long as the oppenents in the game are not glowing from radar. I dont even understand how to do the light thing nor do i care to because im comfortable with the brightness / speed of the render i use.

My end all idea is to look past the ZSZ's that disagree, the majority of the ZSZ members i enjoy and i dont think they really care. I will still respect them and hopefully they will return it to me.

I'm not against any group of people as a whole, that includes ZSZ. I have enjoyed many games with Dash, Love Monkey, and a few others. I was not happy with ED's refusal to accept or even look into our explanation before trashing us to the world in their forum. Especially when the offense didn't merit it IMO.

I also have not been happy with Scay and the change in his attitude toward us long before this was a "thing". Comming here under mutiple aliases (at least 4), trash talking our clan on our own server, and breaking every rule in the book. He's well on his way to a ban and it has nothing to do with interclan politics. He's become an ass.

Other than that I have nothing bad to say about ZSZ

mAmA

mAmA summed up the way I see it. IMO Scay has an association with Mimetic and to add that with his behavior I believe his days around here are numbered. Aside from that I really have no association with anyone from that clan and I don't judge them based on Scay's behavior.

I agree with Mama and Cyg. Lovemonkey is one of my favorite people to talk to on Vent. Scay is a douche. Even Lovemonkey said recently that many in ZSZ think so

yeah that is true, Lovemonkey brought up that Scay can get on his nerves, and as i stated in my last post (which didnt show up for some odd reason)

I am disapointed with scay for the side he has picked, being someone who talked often with him in ZSZ vent before mimetic even touched foor on ZSZ or DOU, but i have no control over his decisions so ive let it go. As for ED she is a dictator of that server and need to chill she really has showed herself as power hungry over the years that i have played there.

BTW Otis looks like your email has been hacked cuz I got a couple emails from you gmail said were harmful

Listen, I will say this one last time. I will do it loud so you can all hear it well.

It is a non-issue!!!!!!

Maybe it was an issue 5 years ago when pure was not an out-dated POS and everybody used Direct X.

90% of the people who play the game use OpenGL drivers now. The OpenGL drivers do the exact same thing that the no-shadow commands do. So if you use OpenGL you are O.K., but if you use the no-shadow you are a cheater? Regardless, it is a non-issue since most people use OpenGL now.

This happened now because someone over there (most likely Memetic) started stirring the pot again. This was brought up a few years ago and memetic and his SS bitches won't let it go because they have nothing else to complain about. It's like when you get in an argument with your husband / wife and they don't have anything valid to say so they bring up shit that happened 5 years ago that you thought had already been worked through.

TBH, I don't care about anybody's touch-feely love for ZSZ. They have been very unkind to DOU and it's members for quite awhile now. So, someone asks something about the no-shadow deal and then right away someone from ZSZ is here on our forum to lambaste us? Smells like a set-up to me. These guys never come around.

Evil-cunt-dragon never plays here, and I never play on her broke-ass piece of shit server. So why should she and her cronies even care? Because someone is stirring the pot, that's why. This is why we need to silence these posts when they appear. It is not censorship, it is right of ownership. If we take their voice away, they will go away. It's just like mom used to say, if you don't let it bother you they will find someone else to bother.

One last word here from me about ZSZ. They dump all of their server logs to posts on their site, including false positives. They leave it to the people reading them to understand this, most don't. Many people over the years (many, ZSZ used to be popular) have been falsely accused of being cheaters because of this. I am not 100% sure, but I think it was Plumber (or someone else if memory is incorrect) that had this happen to him a few years back. They nailed him for a package he had that was 100% legit but flagged by pure nonetheless. Lots of people reacted to this thinking he was a cheater.

T

P.S. The majority of this shit happened because of Lovely. Who here misses her?

Otis_Firefly wrote: I guess my question here is - and solely to satisfy my own understanding of how we operate - do we as a clan view this as an advantage or do we promote the use of it in game by our members or guests? Again I am asking the question of the clan as a whole - not as separate individuals.

Like I said above, most people have this "advantage" already. It's a non-issue. If you don't like it then the only thing we can do is ban all players who use OpenGL drivers. Raise of hands to do that? Go play on the ZSZ server and when their members join, notice what renderer they are using.

UTDC and now ACE have no problems with OpenGL or even the no-shadow commands for that matter. It was just pure that would kick for it. The people who wrote pure stated that it wasn't a cheat but it would kick for it because some admins wouldn't want people using it. It was never classified as a cheat before the ZSZ / Memetic mob jumped in. With pure there never was an option to ban for the no-shadow. When pure kicked, it did so to re-set the renderer settings back to default. Then you could re-join the server in question without problems.

Otis_Firefly wrote: second question is - do we as a clan welcome ZSZ players whomever they may be into our server indiscriminately or do we view them as foe?

Anybody who doesn't run a cheat, plays by the rules, and behaves themselves is welcome to play on our server.

T

To the point of other clans all use the OpenGl or some other way to have light.

When we played in FN matches in the super dark maps other clans saw us right away when all we saw was darkness yet in the not so dark maps we generally won or did as good. But they rarely played maps with light

Abberation wrote: To the point of other clans all use the OpenGl or some other way to have light.

When we played in FN matches in the super dark maps other clans saw us right away when all we saw was darkness yet in the not so dark maps we generally won or did as good. But they rarely played maps with light

That has been my experience for years. I would spend hours to find a killer spot in a map only to be found in seconds. I was always wondering, "How'd they fins me so fast?

Several years ago we got some screen shots from a match against another clan and it looked like complete daylight. That's when we knew there was something up.

mAmA

WTF? Can someone tell me what Tommy is ranting about - I'm slow and don't quite get it.

I don't think anyone including myself has eluded to the perception that this thing is a cheat except for the ZSZ server and that is only a detection not referring to a hack/aimbot ect. So why is everyone so focused on perpetually reiterating the fact that this isn't a cheat?

My intention in creating this thread was to know for next time if I am going to be true to the team that I have all of my facts in line which apparently I did not.

And touchy-feely love for ZSZ thing has to be a joke that I'm not getting.

Someone with a clear mind help me out here. Should I be offended or should I just be thankful that I am confident enough to ask a question of the clan without expecting anyone to take off their panties and smear shit all over their crib in a cyber-tantrum?

A simple - "no we don't view this as an in game advantage and if you want to brighten your screen - go ahead. It's no different that having a faster processor/lower ping/more experience on any given map". And the next time the issue comes up I can answer - "Yes some of us use it and some of us don't. Would you like to know how it works?"

And apparently it is a big deal since the issue has been going around for some 5 years now. I personally don't care what other clans do - but I do feel like I should be true to my own clan and get their backs when our integrity is in question. Otherwise we are just a bunch of individuals who could care less about what anyone else does - therefor making the tag we wear just an accessory like Rhine Stones that those old lady's wear in Florida for no apparent reason. ECK!

Maybe we're not a team here and that's the whole point.

Oh well who cares............