Is using a secret camping?

I think it is hiding not camping.

You guys should say what you really think.

Of course it is camping. If you are hiding somewhere and not running around then it is camping. I think it would be more correct to say that it isn't skill. Anybody can hide behind an invisible wall and snipe people unseen by them. THere is no skill in that.

But do you like it...apparently not.

I am not crazy about secrets either. I would have no objection to weeding out the maps that are all secrets like the punky maps. This has been brought up before by me but it never went anywhere.

If we do, I would suggest a few at a time replaced by new maps, then people may not complain. Not all maps will go either. 24hourfitness has wall you can walk through (but not see through either way) to get some powerups. Fok if I will be removing that map.

Anyway, if we want to do this, when I get my new machine I will work on it.

Tommy

I personally do not have a problem with secrets,i think at one time or another we all use them on certain maps and i think it can actually map some /certain maps better,most of us know where the secrets are and you don't have to see them to kill them,camp and you can see the gun fire coming from the wall or where ever the secret may be...but thats just my option ,so don't hang me for it plzzzzz....lol. 😆 😆 😆 😆

I think knowing a map is the single most important factor in determining who wins that map. This would include knowing the secrets which are part of that map.

I don't need secrets to enjoy playing so if they were all to dissapear tomorrow it wouldn't really bother me. I do think there is a lot of assaulting that goes with trying to reach and hold a certain key secret, but that is also true for good spots that are not secrets.

I think the question here is... would we have less trouble on our server if we phased out maps with secrets ? While I don't belive it would remove all conflict I do believe there would be less conflict. I have noticed several players will pop in during certain popular maps ( like Punky's, Fog The Sniper Bar, etc) while they are being played. Also I have noticed that if someone selects a hardcore camping map Like "Blackbirds Lodge" several players will leave the server. It's too boring for them. This may be better for us.

Also if we are going to be all over outsiders that come here and break our rules, we need to make sure the membership here is following them.

mAmA

{DOU} yO mAmA wrote: I think knowing a map is the single most important factor in determining who wins that map. This would include knowing the secrets which are part of that map.

I don't need secrets to enjoy playing so if they were all to dissapear tomorrow it wouldn't really bother me. I do think there is a lot of assaulting that goes with trying to reach and hold a certain key secret, but that is also true for good spots that are not secrets.

I think the question here is... would we have less trouble on our server if we phased out maps with secrets ? While I don't belive it would remove all conflict I do believe there would be less conflict. I have noticed several players will pop in during certain popular maps ( like Punky's, Fog The Sniper Bar, etc) while they are being played. Also I have noticed that if someone selects a hardcore camping map Like "Blackbirds Lodge" several players will leave the server. It's too boring for them. This may be better for us.

Also if we are going to be all over outsiders that come here and break our rules, we need to make sure the membership here is following them.

mAmA

I will agree that know knowing a map is the most important key to success, but only in most cases. There are some where a person only has to know one or two hidden places to dominate a map.

I also agree that there are some normal, non-secret camping spots that can command a map too. But the big difference between them is that you have a chance to knock someone out of the normal spot whereas it would take blind shooting or a deemer to have a chance with the player using a secret.

The biggest problem with secrets the assault/revenge fests that commonly occur on maps that have them.

The other day I observed in Trofa Harbor that Underdog was in the container secret and BC Boom translocated in to it with him. I cannot recall if UD shot him but a conversation ensued where they had a discussion where they felt that once they're in a secret, it's "their" spot, like they own it for the map. I didn't say anything to them but I observed Boom trans in and shoot the player in the wall secret soon after and those two just sat in their secrets and dominated the map. They knew where each other was but made no attemps to shoot into each other's secrets.

When I see something like this I also wonder what it does for a newb coming in to our server and has no sporting chance. They're getting fragged continously from players they have no chance of seeing and I would guess that they don't look forward to returning to DOU.

I wouldn't think it necessary to eliminate every secret but the ones that really need to go are the ones that tend to degenerate into the assault/revenge crap that ruins it the campers.

{DOU}_Cygnus_X_1 wrote:

I will agree that know knowing a map is the most important key to success, but only in most cases. There are some where a person only has to know one or two hidden places to dominate a map.

I also agree that there are some normal, non-secret camping spots that can command a map too. But the big difference between them is that you have a chance to knock someone out of the normal spot whereas it would take blind shooting or a deemer to have a chance with the player using a secret.

The biggest problem with secrets the assault/revenge fests that commonly occur on maps that have them.

The other day I observed in Trofa Harbor that Underdog was in the container secret and BC Boom translocated in to it with him. I cannot recall if UD shot him but a conversation ensued where they had a discussion where they felt that once they're in a secret, it's "their" spot, like they own it for the map. I didn't say anything to them but I observed Boom trans in and shoot the player in the wall secret soon after and those two just sat in their secrets and dominated the map. They knew where each other was but made no attemps to shoot into each other's secrets.

When I see something like this I also wonder what it does for a newb coming in to our server and has no sporting chance. They're getting fragged continously from players they have no chance of seeing and I would guess that they don't look forward to returning to DOU.

I wouldn't think it necessary to eliminate every secret but the ones that really need to go are the ones that tend to degenerate into the assault/revenge crap that ruins it the campers.

You've made some great points here Cyg, and I agree with everything you've said but one.

IMO we would need to eliminate all the secrets. Any that are left would represent an advantage for anyone that can get to them. This is the whole problem to begin with, people fighting to get an advantage over other players. If we eliminate them alltogether we level the playing field and it becomes a contest of skill again. It really takes very little skill to hide behind a one way wall and shoot people that can't see you even if they are right in front of you.

The more we disscuss this the more I realize what a pain secrets are becomming, and how little I would miss them, and the problems that come with them.

mAmA

There are a few secrets that don't really provide a tactical advantage but simply hide pick-up goodies. The one Tommy mentioned in 24hr Fitness is an example. Those secrets I don't see being much of a problem. Once in a great while you'll find a newb camping in them but I can't recall of those kind ever being the focus of a problem.

What about fixing some of the maps?

Big Bedroom Clean is one example of it being done.

I would hate to ask Talon about undertaking something like this as he's already done alot for us in the mapping department.

Do we have anyone else capable of either making false walls solid or removing them entirely?

I'd really like to learn to do that stuff myself but I'm about to get pretty busy finding a new job and settling into a new routine so I have no idea how much time I can devote to UT in the near future.

Wanted: More UT mappers.

I don't see a problem with leaving in secrets like the one you mentioned in 24hr fitness, I was referring only to those that give tactical advantage since those are the ones everyone fights over. I'm more for removing the maps entirely only because it would be so much work for someone to fix them. I love Big Bedroom Clean, but I would feel bad asking someone to give that much of their time to fix so many maps.

However if someone were to volunteer ....

mAmA

{DOU}_Cygnus_X_1 wrote: [quote={DOU} yO mAmA]I think knowing a map is the single most important factor in determining who wins that map. This would include knowing the secrets which are part of that map.

I don't need secrets to enjoy playing so if they were all to dissapear tomorrow it wouldn't really bother me. I do think there is a lot of assaulting that goes with trying to reach and hold a certain key secret, but that is also true for good spots that are not secrets.

I think the question here is... would we have less trouble on our server if we phased out maps with secrets ? While I don't belive it would remove all conflict I do believe there would be less conflict. I have noticed several players will pop in during certain popular maps ( like Punky's, Fog The Sniper Bar, etc) while they are being played. Also I have noticed that if someone selects a hardcore camping map Like "Blackbirds Lodge" several players will leave the server. It's too boring for them. This may be better for us.

Also if we are going to be all over outsiders that come here and break our rules, we need to make sure the membership here is following them.

mAmA

....... When I see something like this I also wonder what it does for a newb coming in to our server and has no sporting chance. They're getting fragged continously from players they have no chance of seeing and I would guess that they don't look forward to returning to DOU.......

That is a very important reason to remove maps with a bunch of secrets (Trofa or Ribeira and some otheres like that) and lock them in maps that have few and small secrets.

I often saw new players leaving before the end of the map when they're continuously dying without understanding what can happen in there. Often !...

All good points. I can take or leave the secrets but the ultimate camping experience is an FN tournament with no shields, deemers or secrets.

I do not like maps with secrets and most of the time I will

leave until the map is over and about the Dou members

I have said things to people on our server about them R&g

and they would ask why Dou gets to do it I feel that the

rules go for everyone if Iam doing wrong then I should be

kicked just like anyone else that is my 5cents worth

MHO

The walls that are opaque on the outside and invisible from within are not very sporting. If a map has these then I would not care if it were removed from the server. A secret elevator or invisible swirly is no big issue.

I pretty much agree with most of what's been said. Like MeMe, if a stupid ass secret map like the fog bar or any punky map is picked I exit the server. I know that they drive people away, and they also draw the people that want to assault each other for secrets. Screw that crap.

If a person always camps a map, they never even find those things unless they really explore them offline or go open it in unrealed.

A few years ago I played with unrealed quite a bit, but haven't for a long time. I don't have time now, but maybe when things slow down, or later in winter I'll get back into it. I know some of those maps with a few annoying secrets should be easily salvageable. Maps like punkys should be deleted. Although.... It would be pretty hilarious to take all the secret spots and change them into instant kill areas instead. Yeah that would be funny shit. A fun lesson for the guys that vote the punky maps in all the time.

Evil wrote: I pretty much agree with most of what's been said. Like MeMe, if a stupid ass secret map like the fog bar or any punky map is picked I exit the server. I know that they drive people away, and they also draw the people that want to assault each other for secrets. Screw that crap.

If a person always camps a map, they never even find those things unless they really explore them offline or go open it in unrealed.

A few years ago I played with unrealed quite a bit, but haven't for a long time. I don't have time now, but maybe when things slow down, or later in winter I'll get back into it. I know some of those maps with a few annoying secrets should be easily salvageable. Maps like punkys should be deleted. Although.... It would be pretty hilarious to take all the secret spots and change them into instant kill areas instead. Yeah that would be funny shit. A fun lesson for the guys that vote the punky maps in all the time.

That would be funny 😆 instead of an advantage they get a frag against them

mAmA