JK47 Removal Vote

I am mostly to blame for this. Here is how it went.

I thought about it, and being the old softie that I am, thought of giving him one last chance to reform himself. I hoped that by seeing the seriousness of this he would wise up a bit. I know that the clan means an awful lot to him so I felt bad about tossing him out.

That being said...I did tell this to DM, Dylan, and Razor. But I also told them that I am on a leave of absence right now so they would be making the decisions and that I am not.

There is a valid reason for leadership in this or any organization. If you re-read this thread, you will see even among those pissed off, that there is a split between those who are level-headed about the situation and reasoning everything out, and those who are out for blood and just want to see the bodies fall.

I don't know if it is because of the economy or something else, but for the past few months I have seen some people here just really start to get nasty, not just in regard to this.

I don't mean to imply that anybody is right or wrong for their opinion, especially if it differs from that of someone else I may agree or disagree with. What I do mean is that some of you really need to calm the fuck down.

I see this from 2 sides right now. First, a majority did vote him out. Valid point. On the other hand, even Razor (who I think JK has annoyed the most) said to give him another chance. These are things to consider.

Like I said, I am on break. This is not my decision. Whatever is ultimately decided however, I sincerely hope it is done calmly and in a level-headed manner.

Tommy

Tommy wrote: I am mostly to blame for this. Here is how it went.

I thought about it, and being the old softie that I am, thought of giving him one last chance to reform himself. I hoped that by seeing the seriousness of this he would wise up a bit. I know that the clan means an awful lot to him so I felt bad about tossing him out.

That being said...I did tell this to DM, Dylan, and Razor. But I also told them that I am on a leave of absence right now so they would be making the decisions and that I am not.

There is a valid reason for leadership in this or any organization. If you re-read this thread, you will see even among those pissed off, that there is a split between those who are level-headed about the situation and reasoning everything out, and those who are out for blood and just want to see the bodies fall.

I don't know if it is because of the economy or something else, but for the past few months I have seen some people here just really start to get nasty, not just in regard to this.

I don't mean to imply that anybody is right or wrong for their opinion, especially if it differs from that of someone else I may agree or disagree with. What I do mean is that some of you really need to calm the fuck down.

I see this from 2 sides right now. First, a majority did vote him out. Valid point. On the other hand, even Razor (who I think JK has annoyed the most) said to give him another chance. These are things to consider.

Like I said, I am on break. This is not my decision. Whatever is ultimately decided however, I sincerely hope it is done calmly and in a level-headed manner.

Tommy

Maybe the vote should be worded differently. Instead of kicking him out, how about we vote on the length of his suspension or probation?

I believe in the relationship of actions and consequences, not just out of principal but in a sort of cosmic sense, Karma.

If we never feel the sting of our actions, if someone always steps in to save us, we never learn or grow. I think after so many incidents and so many warnings it is appropriate for JK to feel the sting of his actions, in this way he will be forced to be accountable for the things he has done. IMO, a valuable lesson for a young man. There have been members who left the clan ( granted, not under these circumstances) and re-applied later to re-join. They are contributing members here. I see no reason why JK could not re-apply in 90 days if this means so much to him. I would not object to this.

Simply put, I see it as no losss, no lesson.

mAmA

I'm sorry Dylan, You posted that you know there are not 60 active members, then why was this posted ?

Dylan wrote: Just to be clear. There are 60 members in the clan. Not 20.

Regarding this,

Dylan wrote: Another note to consider, I didn't see 15 people post why they voted yes as we do in a recruitment vote. So I'm to assume most of those votes don't count, as we state in a recruitment vote.

In a recruitment vote only those voting "NO" are required to explain why to have their vote count.

mAmA

R_Mad wrote: According with the facts, I agree with Bison, but the reflection for that I asked refers how we approach the topics, not on JK...

- First: he had a time of recruitment. Did nobody see anything wrongly in him? Why he was voted like a member?

- Second: once like a member, JK deserves a little respect from us, no matter if he does not. So I believe he should have the possibility to defend himself.

- Third: Tommy applied a suspension like a punishment. I believe we should respect that decision and to wait for his fulfillment.

- Fourth: I never saw a complaint about JK in the forums.

- Fifth: Was the removal vote first discussed by the administrators in the private part of the forum, before presenting this to the rest of the members for to vote, or it was a spontaneous decision of a person?

Etc

Finally: Even in a court-martial the defendant can defend himself. The form like this topic appeared looks like a Lynching

After reading the last 2 pages in this thread then you have to decide which action is right either you vote as a clan in which case R-Mad is right because as a clan he was never warned what would happen just by individuals within the clan and you already said individuals cant do this ??????!!!!!!!!!

*DARKMATTER* wrote: [quote=R_Mad]According with the facts, I agree with Bison, but the reflection for that I asked refers how we approach the topics, not on JK...

- First: he had a time of recruitment. Did nobody see anything wrongly in him? Why he was voted like a member?

- Second: once like a member, JK deserves a little respect from us, no matter if he does not. So I believe he should have the possibility to defend himself.

- Third: Tommy applied a suspension like a punishment. I believe we should respect that decision and to wait for his fulfillment.

- Fourth: I never saw a complaint about JK in the forums.

- Fifth: Was the removal vote first discussed by the administrators in the private part of the forum, before presenting this to the rest of the members for to vote, or it was a spontaneous decision of a person?

Etc

Finally: Even in a court-martial the defendant can defend himself. The form like this topic appeared looks like a Lynching

After reading the last 2 pages in this thread then you have to decide which action is right either you vote as a clan in which case R-Mad is right because as a clan he was never warned what would happen just by individuals within the clan and you already said individuals cant do this ??????!!!!!!!!!

This is true. He should have received an official warning from the Clan not individuals.

Do over!

{DOU} yO mAmA wrote: I'm sorry Dylan, You posted that you know there are not 60 active members, then why was this posted ?

[quote=Dylan]Just to be clear. There are 60 members in the clan. Not 20.

Regarding this,

Dylan wrote: Another note to consider, I didn't see 15 people post why they voted yes as we do in a recruitment vote. So I'm to assume most of those votes don't count, as we state in a recruitment vote.

In a recruitment vote only those voting "NO" are required to explain why to have their vote count.

mAmA

First: The reason I said this is because I didn't see an experation on the pole. There may be more members that want to vote.

Second: "Yes" being the answer to remove him.

*DARKMATTER* wrote: [quote=R_Mad]According with the facts, I agree with Bison, but the reflection for that I asked refers how we approach the topics, not on JK...

- First: he had a time of recruitment. Did nobody see anything wrongly in him? Why he was voted like a member?

- Second: once like a member, JK deserves a little respect from us, no matter if he does not. So I believe he should have the possibility to defend himself.

- Third: Tommy applied a suspension like a punishment. I believe we should respect that decision and to wait for his fulfillment.

- Fourth: I never saw a complaint about JK in the forums.

- Fifth: Was the removal vote first discussed by the administrators in the private part of the forum, before presenting this to the rest of the members for to vote, or it was a spontaneous decision of a person?

Etc

Finally: Even in a court-martial the defendant can defend himself. The form like this topic appeared looks like a Lynching

After reading the last 2 pages in this thread then you have to decide which action is right either you vote as a clan in which case R-Mad is right because as a clan he was never warned what would happen just by individuals within the clan and you already said individuals cant do this ??????!!!!!!!!!

Thank you. The point I was trying to make about a fair trial.

An admin is supposed to be an official representative of the clan. How much more official should it be ?

Were we supposed to have a board of inquiry ? Should he be entitled to council ? According to what ?

We have no precedents for this type of action.

We have at least 5 different server admins that have spoken to JK about his behavior. Most have spoken to him multiple times. I've heard this called a lynching twice now, I fail to see how this could even remotely be called a lynching. JK has defended himself, he's denied everything, like usual. One exception, he came on as "The One" to do it. Check back in this thread. There's no conspiracy to get rid of JK, just a lot of people that don't believe he deserves another chance based on things he has done. Seems straight forward enough to me

mAmA

Dylan wrote:

Another note to consider, I didn't see 15 people post why they voted yes as we do in a recruitment vote. So I'm to assume most of those votes don't count, as we state in a recruitment vote.

Don't recall having to explain why we voted yes in the recruitment vote ❓ It's why u voted no or abstained.

§h¤®tï£ wrote: I'm not gonna lie,

I guess there really is a first time for everything!!!!! 🙄

T

Dylan wrote: I didn't see an experation on the pole.

OMG do I have my work cut out for me!!!!

T

Dylan wrote: [quote={DOU} yO mAmA]I'm sorry Dylan, You posted that you know there are not 60 active members, then why was this posted ?

[quote=Dylan]Just to be clear. There are 60 members in the clan. Not 20.

Regarding this,

Dylan wrote: Another note to consider, I didn't see 15 people post why they voted yes as we do in a recruitment vote. So I'm to assume most of those votes don't count, as we state in a recruitment vote.

In a recruitment vote only those voting "NO" are required to explain why to have their vote count.

mAmA

First: The reason I said this is because I didn't see an experation on the pole. There may be more members that want to vote.

Second: "Yes" being the answer to remove him.

Fair enough. IMO the majority of the active membership has already voted but I personally have no problem leaving this up for a couple of weeks more if you feel others that have not had a chance to vote, might vote.

Regarding an explanation from everyone who voted, on "Why" they voted yes for JK's removal from the clan, I don't think a lot of people will be comfortable doing that given the now political nature of this topic.

mAmA

{DOU} yO mAmA wrote:

Regarding an explanation from everyone who voted, on "Why" they voted yes for JK's removal from the clan, I don't think a lot of people will be comfortable doing that given the now political nature of this topic.

mAmA

If it helps, I voted Yes because he will never learn. It's like grounding your own child. Slap them on the hand, take away their Ipod and they are good until they get it back. Once they get comfortable again, guess what happens. Same ol' bullshit over again.

Ok people, lets do this. I see everyone is upset about it and I apoligize. He can reapply and we'll take it from there.

So let the removal begin.