What should DOU do about Lovely35?

Evil wrote:

Oh and claiming Revisio was doing all that shit that she does?

If you are referring to my post, my exact wording was

We have had one member quit because of her play style (even though his own was questionable).

I never claimed what you said above. Much like Lovely, I am going by what I have heard others say. Let me be clear on this, as I was not in my original post. I never had a problem with Rev. Heck, I like the kid. I have heard others voice that he can be an "aggressive camper". This may or may not be true as I did not experience it. Therefore let me amend my statement above to read We have had one member quit because of her play style (even though his own was questionable to some).

Thank you, Evil for pointing this out to me. I must learn to be more thorough in my post. 😀

In reply to Charger's post:

People love to come here til we get an problem player coming around and we drag our asses around doing nothing but talking about it. We have to learn to act sooner.

We wait til people, even our own members get fed up and start playing elsewhere. And then we are like "OH SHIT!!! maybe we should do something"......Guess what?....TOO DAMN LATE!!!! Damage done, some of these players will never come back. There is something innately wrong when our own members are not feeling like they want to play here and have to go elsewhere to have fun? We have to get off of our collective asses man up and do this in a much quicker and decisive way.

Hear Hear!

This is why the Security Issues is one of the largest sections of the forum. I mean really, it took 57 posts and almost 300 replies before something was done about Mimetic. And then we vote on banning him. WTF from what I read he earned it a long time ago. =& at last read was starting to act right, but geez what did he put players through. Look at what the GEOF guys and DJ-hardbpm and the Canadians put players through before we did something. All the bullshit from people and we have to be nice guys, I don't think so. This is our house respect it or get the F out!!!

I agree. How many times I did get assaulted, close revenged, hunted, taunted, provocated? Any of you would have been pissed off way sooner than I did and kick them off the server. I cant kick so I have to post about it and now I am getting crusified for it.

Lovely, I do not know you, have never played with you. But I read every post on this forum. Clearly there are issues with your style of play. There are entirely too many people complaining about you for there not to be. I know you feel differently and that you are doing nothing wrong. But for many of the people speaking up about you I have very deep respect. I have known them for a long time and have never heard of them being false in any way. If anything they have to have been pushed over the edge by a bulldozer before they say anything negative about someone.

Thats what I want too. I asked someone this week if I had changed. This person told me yes. I did stop complaint and being upset and angry about the game. I take it less seriously. I am there a lot more often than any of members here. I see a lot of things happening but if I say something, I am always in the wrong. If someone spectate, they dont act the same way. That is not very funny. I agree I use way too much deemers. I will use them a lot less or not use them at all if its what it takes. I was using them only when bad players were on. As for hunting and revenging, I have been told that I am not doing it. If someone use my name like it happend on DOU sniper before, I am not aware of it. I did catch my son this week using it tho and I told him not to.

I suggest that you try very hard to try and negate the problems by very carefully playing by DOU rules. No one here is out to get you, they just want to have fun.

Talking about the rules, I would like to see them updated. A lot of rules that I have been told by senior members are not even in the list and then a different member will tell you the opposite and say that I am making my own rules? Who is right then? Who am I supposed to listen to? And as I said, before doing something I always ask because I dont want to be blame. Why tho? I am blamed anyway.

As for lies, everybody have theyre own version of the truth, theyre own point of vue, theyre own point of seing things. Just because you dont see it the same does not mean that its a lie or not the truth, you just see it different. Here is an example:

You see an object flying in the sky. You will think straight away: Oh its a ufo. You tell that to people and they will think staight away that its an alien. Witch its not true. It could be anything because ufo means unidentified flying object. Thats not necessarly and alien. So everybody see things theyre own way or read ans see things the way they want to. That does not mean that it was a lie just means that you dont see it the same way or that you dont have the full information.

A lot of yous saw me play. I camp in a spot. Ok I can walk left to right, back and foward but in same spot. I go for pickups but I dont assault if someone is there. If that person shoot, I will defend myself tho. If someone assault me, I will shoot as well. I think everybody would. And even then, I stand there letting that person kill me most of the time. It can happend that I go to a spot where someone is and I dont see that person right away. When I will see that person I will shoot because I did not know he was there. I always say sorry after that and leave the spot so he can have it back. If that is what you call assault, well right then. I shoot out of reaction. Most of the times, and you saw it, I leave the spot and say sorry.

I would like to know something, if you would get taunted all the time, assaulted, close revenged, provocated, what would be your reaction? Its been how many months that it happend to me? What am I doing? Nothing! I let em and shut my mouth. When it happend to me tho and its an accident, I get all that.

Most of you are not even playing with me or are not even there when it happend. How can you say things like that based on what other guests are saying without seeing it?

I have an idea here, go play on my name. Go see what it is by yourself. I will not play for a while, i need a break so I dont care if you use my name. Just make sure you let someone know before. I am not saying you will have problems the very first times but play on it for a while. The better time to see what I am talking about is when people are on at night. You will see that even if am camping, most of the people who said things are themself breaking the rules.

Anyway I have to go now. I dont even know why I am posting that because seem like you made up your mind.

I know you hate me already so Im gonna say it. I dont believe much you say because I play with you pretty often and I see you trans across a map to get your spots back. And the person you assault calls you on it and you call them a liar.

In my opinion the persecution complex you have makes things worse and this stuff will never change. I read the ZSZ threads months ago and nothing is different for you in DOU. I have come to love this clan and I would like to see people having respect for us again.

{DOU}The Jargonaut wrote: If you are referring to my post, my exact wording was

We have had one member quit because of her play style (even though his own was questionable).

Negatory I found nothing wrong with anything you said Jarg. I was responding to this stupidity:

Lovely35 wrote: Since we are in that, for Revisio, he started playing freestyle, recording demos to find my spot and he was camping in elevators, teleporters and pickup places. He was coming for close revenge or going back to the same spots to get me. He is now frien with those SS and Mimetic and he is cting like them. So I really dont care what he says. He was on vent with them this week.

He does do a lot of dumb transing but at least he usually just kills himself from falling. Whenever I see him stumble upon someone he runs away. Other than being a bit immature and foolish he is ok, I get along fine with him.

Sorry you took my post the wrong way, I should have made it more clear who I was responding to but I was lazy as this software doesn't have multiquote.

Good post Charger.

Cant be this many people seeing it wrong.

She will have the best chance of cleaning her reputation if she changes her name, take the tag off,

play by the rules and keep her chat off.

Charger made a good point about dragging things out so I'm going to go ahead and start the vote.

A "Yes" vote means you want Lovely ejected and banned from DOU.

A "No" vote means you want her to remain a member of the clan.

You will be able to change your vote if you wish.

I'll leave the vote open for a week at the most but if it becomes clear a majority are going one way or the other on this I'll just wind it up and call it good.

This thread remains open for further discussion during the vote.

{DOU}Charger wrote: Whatever is to be done? I really don't care. To me it seems like another security issue. And as in all problem people we give them enough rope to hang themselves. Our problem as a clan is that we give them enough rope to hang themselves, their relatives, and half the country they live in.

This is why the Security Issues is one of the largest sections of the forum. I mean really, it took 57 posts and almost 300 replies before something was done about Mimetic. And then we vote on banning him. WTF from what I read he earned it a long time ago. =& at last read was starting to act right, but geez what did he put players through. Look at what the GEOF guys and DJ-hardbpm and the Canadians put players through before we did something. All the bullshit from people and we have to be nice guys, I don't think so. This is our house respect it or get the F out!!!

I am not saying be camping Nazis. I have been playing a long time and I have seen many good clans disintegrate by doing this. We have a very very good set of rules and a great style of play. Attendance on our server proves it. People love to come here til we get an problem player coming around and we drag our asses around doing nothing but talking about it. We have to learn to act sooner.

We wait til people, even our own members get fed up and start playing elsewhere. And then we are like "OH SHIT!!! maybe we should do something"......Guess what?....TOO DAMN LATE!!!! Damage done, some of these players will never come back. There is something innately wrong when our own members are not feeling like they want to play here and have to go elsewhere to have fun? We have to get off of our collective asses man up and do this in a much quicker and decisive way.

Fun, relaxation, and friendship are the reason most of us have gravitated to DOU. It has not been fun for me here most of the times i come back and play because there was someone here acting up, so I don't play much. Although i did have a good time here the other night....what a nice surprise!

Lovely, I do not know you, have never played with you. But I read every post on this forum. Clearly there are issues with your style of play. There are entirely too many people complaining about you for there not to be. I know you feel differently and that you are doing nothing wrong. But for many of the people speaking up about you I have very deep respect. I have known them for a long time and have never heard of them being false in any way. If anything they have to have been pushed over the edge by a bulldozer before they say anything negative about someone.

I suggest that you try very hard to try and negate the problems by very carefully playing by DOU rules. No one here is out to get you, they just want to have fun.

If your style of play is contrary to our rules, people are not having fun. If they are not having fun they leave. This in turn hurts DOU. If you really care for DOU and want to be part of a great group of people, you need to realize that with all these people complaining there may just have something to it.

Till read this post, I was unable to say something appropriate to this topic.

I congratulate Charger, because he did a very good analysis not on Lovely, but on us.

Certainly all of us were advertised in several forms and opportunities that something was wrong, but our reaction was null....

Suddenly I saw that myself was one of the persons looking for other servers to play and to get fun, and I left my server because it became disagreeable for me.

Bad thing certainly...

So I agree with all Charger post. Confronted to this kind of problems, we have to learn to act sooner.

To lovely

I think that you Lovely need to learn to accept the critiques, and to do a deep reflexion about your behaviour. I do not think all people wants to hurt you.

I liked very much your posts in this forum. You share with us your happiness moments and others not so good. And I respect very much this because I am a very closed person, and I am very jealous with my personal things.

But playing in the server, you are other person, excesivement concerned in to win the games and not in to get fun and built friendship among us...

I would like that voluntarily you were asking for a recess of a time to meditate and to allow also that this ends happily

If the clan gives you a chance to stay with us I will be happy, but if the clan decide to kick you I will accept and support that decision, because I want my clan alive and in full harmony many years...

I voted no. That was because I was writing my past post when the adm add the vote option, but in my post I did a suggestion, to take a voluntary recess, and I want to be faithful to these suggestion and wait Lovely's answer

I dont know R Mad. This may be one of those times where time heals nothing.

I voted NO. Maybe it looks like I’m the only one that really likes Lovely, but reading all the post I must admit that also I am concerned. The reason I voted no is because a ban is the final thing to do. If the majority will vote a yes I can understand that and will back-up the clan, but when I see how long non-members can screw around before they get banned I still like to give Lovely a change to stay with us. My proposal would be to give her a penalty and don’t allow her to play on the server for one month, maybe two. For the forum I don’t know. I’m aware of the fact that DOU-members must give the good example when playing on the server, but they also have some privileges imo. Meaning that members should be given more a chance then non-members when problems has risen.

Lovely is maybe an aggressive player and she likes to win the game. Most of time she also does. And I know certain people can’t stand loosing especially from her. Even as she may have this same problem here herself. Let’s also not forget she plays almost the most hours on the server by all of us, according to gametracker.

It seems we don’t have a system for penalties and maybe we should think about that to prevent this kind of things in the future.

R_Mad and me seems always like the most forgiving members on the server but I think it’s good to have us as a contrast. 🙂

Penalties !!!! Interesting idea !!! Congrats mate ❗

I can't help but think of the Scorpion and the Frog:

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the

scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The

frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion

says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,

the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of

paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,

but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

The vote has been called for. I am going to think on it for a few days. I will wait to see more opinions from the clan.

First let me say that my vote has nothing to do with liking, or not liking Lovely. Actually I enjoy her posts and have enjoyed quite a few conversations with her but there has been a lot going on behind the scenes you don't see posted.

Myself, Razor, Darkmatter, and Cygnus have all had several disscussions and exchanged nunerous pm's with Lovely over the last 9 months about her behavior and what changes needed to happen to keep peace on our server ( NOT 9 weeks, 9 months ). While there has been some improvement, she is still affecting others here in a negative way and causing players to leave our server, some of them members. True, there has been some players harassing her like she says, but there are many others ( in excess of 20 easily) that are server regulars who she has openly accused of regularly breaking rules, cheating, and lying. Most of these players I have played too many games with to count, so I feel I know them and the way that they play. I find it difficult to believe that these people are assaulting her,revenging her, harassing her, etc... It seems to me Lovely likes to win, most of us do, but her need to win causes her to bend rules she won't allow others to bend. This has caused a lot of resentment among members and guests alike. The thread about her posted at ZSZ tells the same story, it's not different at all. Go here and read it. http://www.zszclan.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2014&highlight=lovely . Read this thread and read ours or any of the other threads posted in the forum about her. Look at the accusations, the same. Look at her response to them, the same.Tell me what is different ?

Based on the limited improvement over 9 months, member and guest feedback, and the never ending bickering over her and the way she plays, I have voted yes for her removal. I have done this believing that it is in the best interest of the clan. I do not believe she is a fit with our group, not everyone is. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I do think in the future we should be more selective and give more consideration to how prospective members will get along within the group. We have never and I do mean NEVER had this many problems revolving around a single member of this clan in my entire history here with DOU.

mAmA

NATAN wrote: I voted NO. Maybe it looks like I’m the only one that really likes Lovely, but reading all the post I must admit that also I am concerned. The reason I voted no is because a ban is the final thing to do.

Lovely is maybe an aggressive player and she likes to win the game. Most of time she also does. And I know certain people can’t stand loosing especially from her. Even as she may have this same problem here herself. Let’s also not forget she plays almost the most hours on the server by all of us, according to gametracker.

Yes, a ban should be the final action taken to resolve a situation but it may not be clear to you that the problems surrounding Lovely have been pesent from even before she was voted in as a member. Many of us are of the opinion that she simply cannot change her ways and the same problems will resurface down the road no matter how long we could suspend her for.

The fact that she is competitive is in of itself not a bad thing. It's what she's willing to do to get that win that pisses people off. She focuses on maps that usually have one dominant spot you can run the map from and she'll assault, revenge and do whatever else she needs to gain that spot. I hear he's improved but Balony played the same way and that's why he and Lovely butted heads so much awhile back. They both just had to have that one spot and it didn't matter how they got it.

I am not surprised Gametracker says she has the most time on the server. It fits in with what people have been saying about staying away because she is in the server.

Another main thing that has been a problem is how she believes a person is cheating when in fact nothing is going on. I can't count how many times she's made allegations that were totally baseless. I did notice however that much of the time the accusation was made after someone got the best of her. IMO this has hurt the repution of the clan immensely. I once played under an alias to smoke out a problem player who allegedly would break rules when no admin was present but never did anything wrong when an admin was watching. Over a period of a few days I would come on the server ahead of when I expected this problem player to show. On one of those days Lovely was also there. It was one of the bedroom maps I don't remember the name of. I spawned on top of a dresser where the only cover was a lamp which I made use of. Not long after I was killed by Lovely. I had no idea of where the shot came from. I respawned near the bookshelves which had ramps running up the backs of them. I found some nearby cover and started looking around. A short time later I seen a figure on one of those ramps and I took it out. It was Lovely. She immediately accused me of R&G.

Now imagine what our guests think when it happens to them? That's how alot of this shit surrounding her got started. She's saying she doesn't do it any more but while she may now be refraining from making accusations on the server she still believes it. I was spectating a map not long ago and in Ventrilo she was going on about being assaulted by a player whom I happened to be watching. He fragged her out of her "spot" from over half-way across the map. He was nowhere near her but she's convinced he was cheating.

I think Jarg hits it on the head when he says it is her nature. It's just the way she is. That's why IMO a time-out or suspension will do no good because the root of the problems will remain. She already has been given more than enough opportunities to change things but I believe she is incapable of doing so.