What should DOU do about Lovely35?

{DOU}_Cygnus_X_1 wrote: [quote=NATAN]I voted NO. Maybe it looks like I’m the only one that really likes Lovely, but reading all the post I must admit that also I am concerned. The reason I voted no is because a ban is the final thing to do.

Lovely is maybe an aggressive player and she likes to win the game. Most of time she also does. And I know certain people can’t stand loosing especially from her. Even as she may have this same problem here herself. Let’s also not forget she plays almost the most hours on the server by all of us, according to gametracker.

Yes, a ban should be the final action taken to resolve a situation but it may not be clear to you that the problems surrounding Lovely have been pesent from even before she was voted in as a member. Many of us are of the opinion is that she simply cannot change her ways and the same problems will resurface down the road no matter how long we could suspend her for.

The fact that she is competitive is in of itself not a bad thing. It's what she's willing to do to get that win that pisses people off. She focuses on maps that usually have one dominant spot you can run the map from and she'll assault, revenge and do whatever else she needs to gain that spot. I hear he's improved but Balony played the same way and that's why he and Lovely butted heads so much awhile back. They both just had to have that one spot and it didn't matter how they got it.

I am not surprised Gametracker says she has the most time on the server. It fits in with what people have been saying about staying away because she is in the server.

Another main thing that has been a problem is how she believes a person is cheating when in fact nothing is going on. I can't count how many times she's made allegations that were totally baseless. I did notice however that much of the time the accusation was made after someone got the best of her. IMO this has hurt the repution of the clan immensely. I once played under an alias to smoke out a problem player who allegedly would break rules when no admin was present but never did anything wrong when an admin was watching. Over a period of a few days I would come on the server ahead of when I expected this problem player to show. On one of those days Lovely was also there. It was one of the bedroom maps I don't remember the name of. I spawned on top of a dresser where the only cover was a lamp which I made use of. Not long after I was killed by Lovely. I had no idea of where the shot came from. I respawned near the bookshelves which had ramps running up the backs of them. I found some nearby cover and started looking around. A short time later I seen a figure on one of those ramps and I took it out. It was Lovely. She immediately accused me of R&G.

Now imagine what our guests think when it happens to them? That's how alot of this shit surrounding her got started. She's saying she doesn't do it any more but while she may now be refraining from making accusations on the server she still believes it. I was spectating a map not long ago and in Ventrilo she was going on about being assaulted by a player whom I happened to be watching. He fragged her out of her "spot" from over half-way across the map. He was nowhere near her but she's convinced he was cheating.

I think Jarg hits it on the head when he says it is her nature. It's just the way she is. That's why IMO a time-out or suspension will do no good because the root of the problems will remain. She already has been give more than enough opportunities to change things but I believe she is incapable of doing so.

Ditto

Clear !

{DOU} yO mAmA wrote: First let me say that my vote has nothing to do with liking, or not liking Lovely. Actually I enjoy her posts and have enjoyed quite a few conversations with her but there has been a lot going on behind the scenes you don't see posted.

Myself, Razor, Darkmatter, and Cygnus have all had several disscussions and exchanged nunerous pm's with Lovely over the last 9 months about her behavior and what changes needed to happen to keep peace on our server ( NOT 9 weeks, 9 months ). While there has been some improvement, she is still affecting others here in a negative way and causing players to leave our server, some of them members. True, there has been some players harassing her like she says, but there are many others ( in excess of 20 easily) that are server regulars who she has openly accused of regularly breaking rules, cheating, and lying. Most of these players I have played too many games with to count, so I feel I know them and the way that they play. I find it difficult to believe that these people are assaulting her,revenging her, harassing her, etc... It seems to me Lovely likes to win, most of us do, but her need to win causes her to bend rules she won't allow others to bend. This has caused a lot of resentment among members and guests alike. The thread about her posted at ZSZ tells the same story, it's not different at all. Go here and read it. http://www.zszclan.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2014&highlight=lovely . Read this thread and read ours or any of the other threads posted in the forum about her. Look at the accusations, the same. Look at her response to them, the same.Tell me what is different ?

Based on the limited improvement over 9 months, member and guest feedback, and the never ending bickering over her and the way she plays, I have voted yes for her removal. I have done this believing that it is in the best interest of the clan. I do not believe she is a fit with our group, not everyone is. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I do think in the future we should be more selective and give more consideration to how prospective members will get along within the group. We have never and I do mean NEVER had this many problems revolving around a single member of this clan in my entire history here with DOU.

mAmA

I took up your offer to read the post on the ZSZ clan forum. You are correct, mAmA. Seems like a trend. People leaving their server. People leaving our server. Same complaints. Same answers. Same counter-accusations.

Ron White is a personal favorite comedian of mine. He tells a hilarious story about doing a show at Ft. Polk, which has 40,000 troops, and a woman from the audience who yells “ ‘everyone of them is a bad f**k,’ ” White quips “It’s seems that after 39,999 times you’d go ‘maybe it’s me.’

My decision is made. I can not, in good conscience, let this issue hurt this clan any more than it already has.

{DOU}The Jargonaut wrote:
Ron White is a personal favorite comedian of mine.

The best one out of the 4. The other 3 from that blue collar crap can take a huge flying fuck for all I care

Back 2 topic...

{DOU} yO mAmA wrote: First let me say that my vote has nothing to do with liking, or not liking Lovely. Actually I enjoy her posts and have enjoyed quite a few conversations with her but there has been a lot going on behind the scenes you don't see posted.

Myself, Razor, Darkmatter, and Cygnus have all had several disscussions and exchanged nunerous pm's with Lovely over the last 9 months about her behavior and what changes needed to happen to keep peace on our server ( NOT 9 weeks, 9 months ). While there has been some improvement, she is still affecting others here in a negative way and causing players to leave our server, some of them members. True, there has been some players harassing her like she says, but there are many others ( in excess of 20 easily) that are server regulars who she has openly accused of regularly breaking rules, cheating, and lying. Most of these players I have played too many games with to count, so I feel I know them and the way that they play. I find it difficult to believe that these people are assaulting her,revenging her, harassing her, etc... It seems to me Lovely likes to win, most of us do, but her need to win causes her to bend rules she won't allow others to bend. This has caused a lot of resentment among members and guests alike. The thread about her posted at ZSZ tells the same story, it's not different at all. Go here and read it. http://www.zszclan.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2014&highlight=lovely . Read this thread and read ours or any of the other threads posted in the forum about her. Look at the accusations, the same. Look at her response to them, the same.Tell me what is different ?

Based on the limited improvement over 9 months, member and guest feedback, and the never ending bickering over her and the way she plays, I have voted yes for her removal. I have done this believing that it is in the best interest of the clan. I do not believe she is a fit with our group, not everyone is. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I do think in the future we should be more selective and give more consideration to how prospective members will get along within the group. We have never and I do mean NEVER had this many problems revolving around a single member of this clan in my entire history here with DOU.

mAmA

Thanks for this new precedents... 😮

I'm a little amazed with the identical details in both cases.

It is sad for me, but now I am ready to agree with her removal...

Ok, I have been told by Pyro, Cygnus that droping xloc down ang go for pickups was ok to do. I have also been told by Cygnus that I was the one here moving the less in all the members and camping more.

I was told by Wave that camping in a pickup place was not ok or facing an elevator and killing people was not ok as well.

I was told by Darkmatter and Badman that I was allowed to change spot if mine was compromised. they also told me that getting to a spot if my spawn protection was finish that it was ok if I kill someone who was there but stay in that spot. Witch I was doing but not often because I prefer going in another spot than to kill someone who was there.

Teaming... There is no rule against it, but still i dont do it. It might look like it but I dont leave my spot to go kill someone around the corner or a level below like I seen a lot of members doing.

Deemers, no rules as well.

The thing on ZSZ was started by Brasil who finally got ban for playing with a cheat and he was the one assaulting me. He even got ban for a week for that. The topic in was made by the one who assaulted me and I still have the demo. He was just pissed off because I killed him and complained about him hunting. Dont start beleiving thats story before getting informations from the good persons. The people who were complaining are the same as here or almost. They just brought this here. And what have been said was not the truth totally. They say and show what they want to get advantage of it. The members over there who actually came and did excuse themself for not beleiving me dont want to get involved because of 2 admins over there. And I dont want to put them in trouble so... That is not only that clan. Members of another clan came to me as well and told me what was going on with those SS and Mimetic. I have the logs, I have a convo on vent too. No sorry, I have four. So much for yous who told that what is happening on another server stays over there and have nothing to do here huh? So much as well for saying that DOU is a social clan and like opinions. Doesent look like it to me. Sorry Mama. Nothing against you. I did have a talk with you and did respect what you asked me. Nothing against you at all.

And by the way, ZSZ did the same to AngryDad's son, friends of his son, his daughter and now me. So not credible and if you dont beleive me, go ask AD or the members of his familly. They do that to everybody around him who is playing UT.

Some people here knows the whole true story.

You gave more chances to guests so why am I getting kicked out before the guests who are using cheats or assaulting all the time huh? I dont think that is fair at all. If you have demos of me doing those things I would be glad if you could put them somewhere where I can see them. I have demos of who I am saying that they are not playing by the rules. Bring yours now before kicking me out. And dont forget that I might have made some mistakes but not over and over and not on purpose.

So what is the problem doing what I have been told that it was ok?? Just because some of you dont like it does not mean that it is not ok. How many members I did ask before doing any actions? I would never do a thing without asking. Ask people who were on vent.

Wave, I will change my name and give proofs but how can I do that if I get ban from the server? I played for months on another name. I already made my proofs but I will continue. I have been asked to do so, what I was doing but again, Cygnus did put a post on the forum that if I was contuing using another name, I was going to be booted off the server. Damn Cygnus I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO!!! You are never here so you dont know what have been said. Thats what it looks like to me.

Now I will say what I have on my shoulder:

- Cygnus, you got on JK. He got booted out and now its me. Who will it be after huh???

- Revisio started to play like an ass. He started going in my spots and when I was not there he was going in a spot where he could get me from. He was also camping in pickups places and coming back for close revenge. So that he left was a good thing because I am not the only one who was complaining about that and saw him doing that. A few others as well. Plus he act like those SS that you supposly hate so... He talk to them as well. He was pissed off at me as well because he wanted the admin password on the xloc server to summon deemers and monsters. He did not get it so he started getting after me and trying pissing me off. After he asked DM and he did not get it, he started ignoring him as well. When he does not get his own way, he start acting like a douche bag.

How many members I saw breaking the rules by assaulting, close revenging and running everywhere? How many I seen even not crouching? Did I ever said a thing? NO. That is not my problem. I play my game and mind my own buisness. You cant say that I was complaining anymore and putting some post in the security area cause it was not the case. I did not even reply to some post because not worth it and not only in the security area.

You say that I am paranoying. Maybe it is some of you here who are and who are looking for an excuse why there are not a lot of people anymore on the server. It is easy to put the blame on me because of supposly what happened somewhere else. I am gonna do Like Mama,Wave and DM told me. Play on another name and proove you that I am not the one in the wrong. If you know who I am, I am asking you not to say it to anyone. I want the peace for once and not get provocated, assaulted or all the bullshit like that. Give me time to make my proofs at least.

Thank you and despite all that, take care of yourself gang. I like you even if all that happened. And I say that for everyone of you.

Lovely who have her heart broken but will go with decision.

i am a admin.i have never add a problem with lovely,i have played with her and never seen her do any think wrong,but i have seen people assult her and go back to revenge her aswell,when she kills them,so i think we should give her at least a week to change her name and record all the demos when she plays to c if it is her or the name,what she did at zsz as got nothink to do with dou that is in the past.and the stuff that as gone on at zsz came with her here and u all r going by what happened at zsz.and its the same people there that r doing all at dou

Lovely35 wrote: Teaming... There is no rule against it, but still i dont do it. It might look like it but I dont leave my spot to go kill someone around the corner or a level below like I seen a lot of members doing.

Actually there IS a rule.

Try reading #2

http://clandou.com//html/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3964

Lovely35 wrote: Wave, I will change my name and give proofs but how can I do that if I get ban from the server? I played for months on another name. I already made my proofs but I will continue. I have been asked to do so, what I was doing but again, Cygnus did put a post on the forum that if I was contuing using another name, I was going to be booted off the server. Damn Cygnus I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO!!! You are never here so you dont know what have been said. Thats what it looks like to me.

I posted that warning over TWO WEEKS AGO. Don't make it sound like I just did it. Incidentally, I was asked by another admin to cut you some slack and let you use the alias because of harrassment from Mimetic and the SS thugs. So I let it slide. The recent incidents that brought this all to a head had little or nothing to do with that.

Lovely35 wrote: Now I will say what I have on my shoulder:

- Cygnus, you got on JK. He got booted out and now its me. Who will it be after huh??

Who will it be after you? Ummmmmm, let's see.....who else is behaving like you.....ummmmm......No one, I guess.

You make it sound like this is something I enjoy doing. This is how I get my kicks...The fact that there's almost continous complaints and controversy surrounding you and the fact that I'm so damn sick and tired of hearing about or having to deal with another alleged "cheater" because of you had absolutely nothing to do with it.

And I was the one who was behind getting JK booted out of the clan?

Here's the posts concerning his suspension and subsequent removal from DOU. Read them please.

http://clandou.com//html/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5273

http://clandou.com//html/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5278

Did I suspend JK? NO.

Did I initiate the vote to remove JK from DOU? NO.

So how was I responsible? Did I tell him to try and lie his way into getting information he had no right to have? Did I tell him to impersonate another clanmember? NO and NO again. He was responsible for his own actions and he was voted out of the clan because of them.

You just made a baseless accusation of me driving JK out of the clan. Now can you understand why you are not believed when you accuse people of cheating? Especially people who have been playing here a long time and been no problem for us until you accused them?

Lovely35 wrote: - Revisio started to play like an ass. He started going in my spots and when I was not there he was going in a spot where he could get me from.

Your "spots". You act like you have exclusive rights to a favorite place on a map.

We all know you like going to the same place on a map over and over again. Just because Revisio or anyone else who knows you like to go to a particular place and pick you off out of it doesn't mean they're breaking any rule. IMO it means you need to diversify your choices of where to camp in that particular map.

We all have favorite places to camp in particular maps but no one has a right to that spot over another player. There is no such thing as "My spot" on a DOU server.

Lovely35 wrote:

You gave more chances to guests so why am I getting kicked out before the guests who are using cheats or assaulting all the time huh? I dont think that is fair at all.

- Cygnus, you got on JK. He got booted out and now its me. Who will it be after huh???

1. Because members of DOU have to be held to a higher standards than non members. You are not getting kicked out yet. But by your response you are doing nothing I see to help yourself.

2. I not Cygnus started the vote to remove JK.

Here is the simple solution. Go to a clan that you understand and they understand you.

You are twisting everything we say and do. Which would make you a great lawyer. Is there a lawyer clan?

WOW! What did I miss??? Gotta read through this later!

Wave wrote: Here is the simple solution. Go to a clan that you understand and they understand you.

You are twisting everything we say and do. Which would make you a great lawyer. Is there a lawyer clan?

😆 its funny because its true. 😉

GRouND ZeRo wrote: WOW! What did I miss??? Gotta read through this later!

Are you living in this world? 🙂

R_Mad wrote: [quote=GRouND ZeRo]WOW! What did I miss??? Gotta read through this later!

Are you living in this world? 🙂

LMAO nope he lives between worlds....

*DARKMATTER* wrote: [quote=R_Mad][quote=GRouND ZeRo]WOW! What did I miss??? Gotta read through this later!

Are you living in this world? 🙂

LMAO nope he lives between worlds....

LOLOL More like an alternate reality