NUKER Here,
A player was explaining to me their view of Clan DOU rules with respect to killing at close range.
1) This player feels it is perfectly legal to Xloc to the top of a building and shoot another player already there & outside the 10 meter close kill mod.
2) If this player can sneak around a corner and a player is outside the close kill mod they can shoot them. The inference was that this player was moving to another place.
3) This same player was on a restaurant booth seat & heard another player shooting on the floor below & dropped down to the floor and killed that player.
I believe all 3 instances are assaults.
1) If you are moving on a camping server and you invade another player’s spot you should not shoot. (Xlocing to the top of a building is moving)
2) The Clan DOU sniper server does not allow HUNTING. If you sneak around a corner are you not hunting?
3) If you plan & execute & drop down into another player’s spot and kill them that is the epitome of an assault is it not?
I would like some input from senior administrators, as to their thoughts on these three situations. The input you give me will enable me to be a better Clan DOU admin.
Thank you!
NUKER
:minigun:
Nuker wrote: NUKER Here,
A player was explaining to me their view of Clan DOU rules with respect to killing at close range.
1) This player feels it is perfectly legal to Xloc to the top of a building and shoot another player already there & outside the 10 meter close kill mod.
2) If this player can sneak around a corner and a player is outside the close kill mod they can shoot them. The inference was that this player was moving to another place.
3) This same player was on a restaurant booth seat & heard another player shooting on the floor below & dropped down to the floor and killed that player.
I believe all 3 instances are assaults.
1) If you are moving on a camping server and you invade another player’s spot you should not shoot. (Xlocing to the top of a building is moving)
2) The Clan DOU sniper server does not allow HUNTING. If you sneak around a corner are you not hunting?
3) If you plan & execute & drop down into another player’s spot and kill them that is the epitome of an assault is it not?
I would like some input from senior administrators, as to their thoughts on these three situations. The input you give me will enable me to be a better Clan DOU admin.
Thank you!
NUKER
:minigun:
1. Assault.
2. Close kill. The mod is there to help, but if you’re out of the range of the NoCloseKill mod it can still be considered as a close kill when you're too near to a player.
3. Assault
______
1. I dont think it is realy in our sniper rules, but entering another players spot and then leave is considered a polite thing to do. If you stay on the players spot it can however been seen as teaming up, which is not alowed.
2. If you see a player go to a spot and you’re going after him to get a frag thats called hunting. Also luring a player with an x-loc is considered hunting and therefor forbidden.
3. Assault.
If I may add:
The rules are not absolute and can be subject to revision.
1 Assault,
2. Depends on situation because around a corner doesn't specify how close. If they were just outside the close kill zone then that's too close and should have left. If they were farther then maybe ok.
3. If they can't shoot them from their position where they hear shooting, they shouldn't drop down and assault.
We really should make the current no kill distance half again as large and that would settle it all for me. It just needs to be a bit bigger.
___-SM-___
I have to agree with Natan. All are just not good sniping. I can't tell you how many times that kind of stuff happens to me on the server, and frankly it is beginning to p*** me off. Whether is is being hunter, assaulted or close killed that is not the way to play on DOU, and if some does it the should be booted.
Which brings me to another thing. All are admin's are doing good but they are not always on the same time as everyone else. Wouldn't it be better if more ppl were admin's. Many times i have been playing and have other ppl on the server complain about a player. I would at least like to be able to spectate so I can watch that player and report them, but don't know the password to be a spectater.
Strange and weasel words of that player.
P.S.
@ .::/3I§ON::. :
I have changed the picture 
Rad wrote: Strange and weasel words of that player.
That picture is wrong on so many levels...
I think what Nuker is looking for is a clearer definition of the rules and what tolerance should he use when judging this kind of behavior. I play many matches with Nuker and we Team Speak. I know what he's up against and though my tolerance is rather low for bad behavior, I see the admin having to work hard at interpreting and in many cases the line should be drawn a little more tightly.
I have to add that I umpire baseball and from one umpire to the next, even with the tightest rules we still sometimes disagree and handle situations in different ways.
In these cases, the lines are blurred greatly with the current set of rules and I think for the sake of all admin and subsequent Clan members, they should be more clearly defined. Put plainly, it really sucks when you have a map filled with players walking the fine line of our thin rule book. I'm not disparaging the rules set forth by our Clansmen leaders and founders however, when it can be done the rules should be more cut and dry. The actions of an admin should be clear and concise because with such a handicap the message to all players becomes confused and that only leads to decent amongst Clan members and a bad experience for our guests.
My suggestion is to hold a rules summit once a year to decide democratically on enhancements to the rules and or modifications that would give admin the tools they need to control some of the mêlée.
Thanks
2Big :peace_v:
2big2handle wrote: I think what Nuker is looking for is a clearer definition of the rules and what tolerance should he use when judging this kind of behavior. I play many matches with Nuker and we Team Speak. I know what he's up against and though my tolerance is rather low for bad behavior, I see the admin having to work hard at interpreting and in many cases the line should be drawn a little more tightly.
I have to add that I umpire baseball and from one umpire to the next, even with the tightest rules we still sometimes disagree and handle situations in different ways.
In these cases, the lines are blurred greatly with the current set of rules and I think for the sake of all admin and subsequent Clan members, they should be more clearly defined. Put plainly, it really sucks when you have a map filled with players walking the fine line of our thin rule book. I'm not disparaging the rules set forth by our Clansmen leaders and founders however, when it can be done the rules should be more cut and dry. The actions of an admin should be clear and concise because with such a handicap the message to all players becomes confused and that only leads to decent amongst Clan members and a bad experience for our guests.
My suggestion is to hold a rules summit once a year to decide democratically on enhancements to the rules and or modifications that would give admin the tools they need to control some of the mêlée.
Thanks
2Big :peace_v:
Great Post - I second.
Otis_Firefly wrote: [quote=2big2handle]I think what Nuker is looking for is a clearer definition of the rules and what tolerance should he use when judging this kind of behavior. I play many matches with Nuker and we Team Speak. I know what he's up against and though my tolerance is rather low for bad behavior, I see the admin having to work hard at interpreting and in many cases the line should be drawn a little more tightly.
I have to add that I umpire baseball and from one umpire to the next, even with the tightest rules we still sometimes disagree and handle situations in different ways.
In these cases, the lines are blurred greatly with the current set of rules and I think for the sake of all admin and subsequent Clan members, they should be more clearly defined. Put plainly, it really sucks when you have a map filled with players walking the fine line of our thin rule book. I'm not disparaging the rules set forth by our Clansmen leaders and founders however, when it can be done the rules should be more cut and dry. The actions of an admin should be clear and concise because with such a handicap the message to all players becomes confused and that only leads to decent amongst Clan members and a bad experience for our guests.
My suggestion is to hold a rules summit once a year to decide democratically on enhancements to the rules and or modifications that would give admin the tools they need to control some of the mêlée.
Thanks
2Big :peace_v:
I agree we have to revisit some of our rules again. But no matter how we redo them there will always be people who will try to walk the fine line at the edge of the rules.
As for the close kill mod even if we make it 50 meters there will always be some one who backs up to 51 meters to get a kill. Our mod is there to minimize the close kills. It is still up to us to police the rule.
The other two examples are, and I think most will agree just plain assault.
We need to separate in our rules No assaulting and No close kills, Our current N. A. rule only addresses close kills. It does not explain what we think Assaulting is. I think this is leaving a fuzzy area for people to exploit.
O.K. Get ready...getting on my box again!
While Nuker's discussion with this person is all well and good and the politically correct way to respond to the offender, the answer should be I really don't care what you think our rule means. I know what it means. You can come to the forum and it can be discussed there. You have been warned the rule was explained in person because you are so special. Do it again and you will be kicked...period.
The problem with our rules is not our rules. The problem is enforcement of our rules. I am not saying the guys who spend their valuable playing time babysitting are not doing a great job. We as a clan fall way short of giving these people the support they need.
Until we as a clan stop being a bunch of Nambi Pambi Pussies and stop making it easy for these Pieces of Shit. We will be having this discussion until we die. This is why our security section is the biggest on the forum. It is an endless cycle warn warn warn kick kick kick talk talk talk repeat repeat repeat. This has been going on for years.
BULL SHIT!!!
Enough of this. Once again we have our own members playing else where because of this crap. This has to stop.
We need to stop talking.
We need to clarify our assault rule.
We need to give our Admins a little more free range. We made them Admins because we trust them. I feel confident that they can make the proper call and not abuse their position.
Our Admins have to realize also that in the heat of the moment you cannot have a rational discussion with most people. Tell them to come here and it will be discussed. I know how hard it is to keep a level head when we are so pissed we only see red.
Instead of being nice guys and getting run over by a bunch of assholes on our own server we have to take control. This is our server, we want to have fun on it not be irritated every game. I could care less if we have the most popular server out there. We have this so we can have a fun place to play, the way we like to play. Tough shit if their way is different, this is our house not theirs. They can make their own server and have fun there.
Admins should Warn them three times, kick them, if they come back and play right, all is well. BUT if they come back and do it again warn and kick at the same time, period. If they still don't get it the third time back the Admins should have the right to give on the spot 7 day bans. This will give them 7 days to cool off and realize they don't want to screw around here any more.
If they still don't get it they are not misunderstanding they are just out to make trouble because they are assholes. Then the permanent ban procedure comes into effect.
If anyone feels they have been wronged they can come here and post. The we can have a calm discussion with the person, out of the heat of the moment.
I think most of the abusing asses will figure out real quick they cannot get away with shit here and give up. There will always be the Aggrieveds of the world, but we know what to do with them. We just need to shorten the process a lot shorter in my opinion.
I know that the regular players will appreciate it and our own members will have a better place to play.
Well said, Charger.
I know I'm a noob here, but after 23 years in the armed forces, I'm not so bad at enforcing the rules and disciplining those that do not follow them...as long as they are laid out for all to read in an easy to understand format. As Charger stated, therein lies the rub. Rules must be direct and to the point, or people (or young Soldiers, new gamers, my kids, etc, etc) will tread as far as they can on thin ice before they break through. Some will break through, and IMHO, we need to let those bitches drown. If the rules are easy to grasp and comprehend (thus making them easy to follow) there should be no leeway for those that abuse them. Warn, warn, warn-kick. Come back, get warned again, and ride my size 11 Nike express out of the server for a week or so.
I also agree with 2big. An annual rules summit is a great idea. This would not only give us time to come together as a Clan, but also to reevaluate the rules we have set forth. Using a method with which I am rather familiar, I believe we should:
1. Understand what needs to be changed
2. Plan to come together and make the changes
3. Implement the change
4. Evaluate and supervise the change (Admin Level)
5. Revisit the change to see what about the change should be maintained, sustained, and improved upon
Again, only my humble opinion.
Clarity, conciseness, and completeness are the keys.
Thanks.
Again, in the baseball world as well as any other sport, sometimes rules have to be tweaked to clarify. I don't think it will have to be drastic but just to tighten them up a bit.
WHAT SAY YOU BROTHER CLAN LEADER??
This x 2
More profanity next time though Charger - just my personal preference 😆
{DOU}Charger wrote: [quote=Otis_Firefly][quote=2big2handle]I think what Nuker is looking for is a clearer definition of the rules and what tolerance should he use when judging this kind of behavior. I play many matches with Nuker and we Team Speak. I know what he's up against and though my tolerance is rather low for bad behavior, I see the admin having to work hard at interpreting and in many cases the line should be drawn a little more tightly.
I have to add that I umpire baseball and from one umpire to the next, even with the tightest rules we still sometimes disagree and handle situations in different ways.
In these cases, the lines are blurred greatly with the current set of rules and I think for the sake of all admin and subsequent Clan members, they should be more clearly defined. Put plainly, it really sucks when you have a map filled with players walking the fine line of our thin rule book. I'm not disparaging the rules set forth by our Clansmen leaders and founders however, when it can be done the rules should be more cut and dry. The actions of an admin should be clear and concise because with such a handicap the message to all players becomes confused and that only leads to decent amongst Clan members and a bad experience for our guests.
My suggestion is to hold a rules summit once a year to decide democratically on enhancements to the rules and or modifications that would give admin the tools they need to control some of the mêlée.
Thanks
2Big :peace_v:
I agree we have to revisit some of our rules again. But no matter how we redo them there will always be people who will try to walk the fine line at the edge of the rules.
As for the close kill mod even if we make it 50 meters there will always be some one who backs up to 51 meters to get a kill. Our mod is there to minimize the close kills. It is still up to us to police the rule.
The other two examples are, and I think most will agree just plain assault.
We need to separate in our rules No assaulting and No close kills, Our current N. A. rule only addresses close kills. It does not explain what we think Assaulting is. I think this is leaving a fuzzy area for people to exploit.
O.K. Get ready...getting on my box again!
While Nuker's discussion with this person is all well and good and the politically correct way to respond to the offender, the answer should be I really don't care what you think our rule means. I know what it means. You can come to the forum and it can be discussed there. You have been warned the rule was explained in person because you are so special. Do it again and you will be kicked...period.
The problem with our rules is not our rules. The problem is enforcement of our rules. I am not saying the guys who spend their valuable playing time babysitting are not doing a great job. We as a clan fall way short of giving these people the support they need.
Until we as a clan stop being a bunch of Nambi Pambi Pussies and stop making it easy for these Pieces of Shit. We will be having this discussion until we die. This is why our security section is the biggest on the forum. It is an endless cycle warn warn warn kick kick kick talk talk talk repeat repeat repeat. This has been going on for years.
BULL SHIT!!!
Enough of this. Once again we have our own members playing else where because of this crap. This has to stop.
We need to stop talking.
We need to clarify our assault rule.
We need to give our Admins a little more free range. We made them Admins because we trust them. I feel confident that they can make the proper call and not abuse their position.
Our Admins have to realize also that in the heat of the moment you cannot have a rational discussion with most people. Tell them to come here and it will be discussed. I know how hard it is to keep a level head when we are so pissed we only see red.
Instead of being nice guys and getting run over by a bunch of assholes on our own server we have to take control. This is our server, we want to have fun on it not be irritated every game. I could care less if we have the most popular server out there. We have this so we can have a fun place to play, the way we like to play. Tough shit if their way is different, this is our house not theirs. They can make their own server and have fun there.
Admins should Warn them three times, kick them, if they come back and play right, all is well. BUT if they come back and do it again warn and kick at the same time, period. If they still don't get it the third time back the Admins should have the right to give on the spot 7 day bans. This will give them 7 days to cool off and realize they don't want to screw around here any more.
If they still don't get it they are not misunderstanding they are just out to make trouble because they are assholes. Then the permanent ban procedure comes into effect.
If anyone feels they have been wronged they can come here and post. The we can have a calm discussion with the person, out of the heat of the moment.
I think most of the abusing asses will figure out real quick they cannot get away with shit here and give up. There will always be the Aggrieveds of the world, but we know what to do with them. We just need to shorten the process a lot shorter in my opinion.
I know that the regular players will appreciate it and our own members will have a better place to play.
TOTALLY AGREED WITH 2BIG AND CHARGER AND M@DD0G ABOVE!!! (21yrs military here)
BTW... i hate meetings for the sake of having a meeting.... i don't need the air guys to tell me they gonna fly around,.. nor do i need the arty guys to tell me they gonna blow stuff up...
i came here because of what i saw.. a server where i don't have to be the fastest on the Flak, nor have perfect timing with the shock rifle,.. and i hate dodging those rocket grenades,... but there is an outstanding group of folx here, and a set of rules that i felt not only could i live with,.. i agreed with!! and on top of that,.. there was almost always an admin watching and enforcing those rules!
Most of the time,.. i couldn't tell one from another, so it seems they (admins) all had a consistent understanding of those rules.
Nuker will tell ya that i had my share of frustrations with the "testers" on the server,.. but he took care of them quite readily and some of them have become great regulars on the server,...
ok,.. enuf that,..
have had MAJOR computer issues here with my desktop (laptop no good for gaming) and i hope to be back soon!
BTW... Love M@D's "LET 'EM DROWN!"
sorry for the misquote M@DD0G...
"let those bitches drown"!!!
I agree with 2BIG, Charger, MrU, etc.
Most of the rules we have now were developed a long time ago when we had fewer players frquenting our server and no mods.
I think the rules could be fine tuned a bit to send a clearer less ambiguous message to our guests and give the admins something they don't have to explain or defend quite so often.
mAmA
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