No Shadow Cheat

Just a question for anyone out there calling this a cheat...

This command was included into the game by the designers and can be entered through the console just like changing view, to bring up a map vote or a variety of other things.

So anybody calling it a cheat is just voicing a poor opinion without any facts to back their claim. It's just a "I don't like it so I'll call it a cheat" mentality. I bet most of the whiners complaining about it use 'behind view' to see around their hiding place to spot other players without risking their own hide. That could be considered "cheating" too by your own logic.

Personally, I don't use those commands myself but I can tell some of our guests do.

"[hotskn wrote: jasmin"]What is a "No Shadow" Cheat and why is HH saying that DOU uses it?

This was the original question. All it needed was an answer. There may have been some members of DOU that tried it but NO, DOU does not use it.

Scay has a point, we did try it, why are we shifting the blame as to why we used it. Whether it is a cheat or not makes no difference. We all have the same goal, to play UT and have fun.

Why make it, my clan is better than your clan.

I will treat ZSZ like they are my brother not my enemy.

I want to be able to play over there with a friendly hello.

And I would hope that ZSZ would play over here.

"[ZSZ wrote: SCAY"] If Tommy did not talk about a ZSZ member i would care less about this topic as almost 99% experienced players already know this about DOU admins having used this last year and got caught.

Leave ZSZ alone and do whatever the hell you want with your clan and server.

Well I had been refraining from posting here but now guess I will. Tommy is just pointing out ED hates us. She enjoyed posting how our guys are cheaters and we tried to explain but she didn't care, to this day she has left it posted there. Thanks a lot, it's great having people's IPs posted so they get constant DOS attacks in their systems. Evidently not something that bothers her, she supports spammers and hackers attacking our members. And yet we were still ok with playing with you guys. Funny thing is, ZSZ has a hacked video driver that makes it just as bright, and surprise surprise, pure doesn't catch it. I wouldn't even know about it if several ZSZ guys hadn't been on vent one night with their good buddy mimetic the cheating fuckwad talking about it. They were laughing about the fact that it also screwed up some textures and they were seeing people through walls. They were damn sure getting me in places that I couldn't even tell where I was for the dark, and you guys still do no problem. So seems like it's still in use. Personally a edited video driver is a lot more of a cheat to me than a command that is part of the game. But you know I could give a shit if anyone uses anything. You either use something to make it lighter, or crank your monitor and F11 high as it goes. I'd be all for maps not having all the darkness anyway like the original UT maps. Even dark skins still stand out in the dark spots. Hiding is more a factor of cover and seeing movement than brightness.

Plus here is the real important part, IF WE DON"T SAY IT IS A CHEAT HERE THEN WE CAN DO WHATEVER THE HELL WE WANT. Now that some servers use worthless pure that doesn't catch any real cheats, then people won't use that command there. That is their rules, they can run their servers as they please. If someone wants to use it here, or for exploring dark maps on their computer, then who cares?

I too have been following this thread with a combination of amusement and bewilderment but this is getting out of hand.

What the hell does any of this have to do with ZSZ? No one from our clan has said anything to or about any of you until Scay responded to Tommy's attack on our clan and admin.

Now Evil steps in, sounding like a paranoid delusional. What is wrong with you people?

ZSZ has the utmost respect and integrity in the UT community. Our admins have treated you more than fairly after our anti-cheat caught several using questionable settings on our server. You weren't banned, we didn't make a public stink about it, we just let it go.

I cannot understand why you would attack Evil Dragon and others in our clan when we have nothing to do with this topic.

P.S. Wave, I appreciate your attempt to try to calm things down before Evil went and shot off his mouth.

P.P.S. In my opinion, HELL YES it's a cheat.

First off @ Tommy: Sorry to burst your bubbles but Pure does catch it. That's how we even found out you and your mates were using it. And as for the traffic on your server being more than on ours - back then both had the same traffic and aside from that a server with less cheatprotection and little enforcement of any rules is always easier to get filled than a server that has protection and rules.

and now @ Evil:

Tommy is just pointing out ED hates us. She enjoyed posting how our guys are cheaters and we tried to explain but she didn't care, to this day she has left it posted there.

Actually before posting in ZSZ's forum I asked Tommy and others several times to contact me in this matter - but they all decided to ignore. So I then checked back with UnrealAdmins and finally posted it. FYI it has nothing to do with hate but I'm used to be accused of that by people that show up in our logs. They are always innocent and I am the Evil - ho hum.

Thanks a lot, it's great having people's IPs posted so they get constant DOS attacks in their systems. Evidently not something that bothers her, she supports spammers and hackers attacking our members.

Posting the identity of a cheater is absolutely normal, but most unlikely that this is the place for spammers and hackers to get their info. What you rather might want to keep in mind is that IP's are recorded wherever you go in the web. So maybe these poor victims should consider where they've been so they get attacked now. An accusation like you are making it here is clearly out of line.

Funny thing is, ZSZ has a hacked video driver that makes it just as bright, and surprise surprise, pure doesn't catch it. I wouldn't even know about it if several ZSZ guys hadn't been on vent one night with their good buddy mimetic the cheating fuckwad talking about it. They were laughing about the fact that it also screwed up some textures and they were seeing people through walls. They were damn sure getting me in places that I couldn't even tell where I was for the dark, and you guys still do no problem. So seems like it's still in use. Personally a edited video driver is a lot more of a cheat to me than a command that is part of the game.

I'd appreciate some more clarification on this. Who has a hacked video driver? Some of our members? Is it installed on our server? Or what are you talking about? Please do enlighten me here since other than DOU ZSZ does care if anything illegal is in use. I assume you have proof though for your accusations.

Once again people... How is it a cheat? It's not a hack. It's a typable command. The designers included it into the game yet we have people calling it a cheat and dancing around giving any concrete justifications for doing so.

Pure caught it over at ZSZ? O.K. How about we find a version of anti-cheat that makes anyone using Behindview out to be cheating? What would the difference be? Would we be justified in posting the names and IP's of those caught as cheaters? We had been running the latest Pure here until the switch to Ace and to my knowledge it never stopped anyone from using any typed command. And as far as I've heard only at ZSZ has it been an issue. The only ones around here who really whine about it are Mimetic and his cronies. If you want to get worked up about hacks there's where you need to look and especially at anyone who likes to hang out with him.

Bottom line here is ZSZ is calling some people cheaters because their anti-cheat does not allow the no shadows command. Any server has the right to allow or disallow whatever they wish but to call someone using a command which was included by the game's designers a cheater is irresponsible and way out of line.

All this sideline activity is not needed. I started this thread with a simple question. "What is it and Y HH says DOU uses it?" These questions have now been answered. All this ZSZ vs DOU talk is really not needed.

All this ZSZ vs DOU talk is really not needed.

I agree Jaz. Unfortunately Tommy and Evil chose to make it ZSZ vs DOU thing, which I find a little bizarre. Evil went so far as to accuse some of our members of cheating in a public forum. That makes it a little personal.

ok i dont know coding and commmands particularly well, and i am especially unfamiliar with it in respect to this - so can someone explain how come its detected by any form of cheat if its just a console command like "show all" or "!suicide"? or am i misinterpretting something here?

What I find funny is Scay calling DOU out for ANYTHING. I have a list of several names he played under and was kicked from the server with for breaking EVERY rule the clan has posted.

Lit up or not all I give a shit about is if people play on the server by the rules and without the aid of aimbots and such

Pub wrote: ok i dont know coding and commmands particularly well, and i am especially unfamiliar with it in respect to this - so can someone explain how come its detected by any form of cheat if its just a console command like "show all" or "!suicide"? or am i misinterpretting something here?

Whomever is writting the anticheat program can have it detect whatever they wish. But for it to catch a legitimate command was either a mistake on the designer's part or should have been made as a separate mod (like "no telefragging") if it was purposely done. Anticheats should ONLY catch hacks but sometimes they step over the line.

{DOU}Cygnus wrote: [quote=Pub]ok i dont know coding and commmands particularly well, and i am especially unfamiliar with it in respect to this - so can someone explain how come its detected by any form of cheat if its just a console command like "show all" or "!suicide"? or am i misinterpretting something here?

Whomever is writting the anticheat program can have it detect whatever they wish. But for it to catch a legitimate command was either a mistake on the designer's part or should have been made as a separate mod (like "no telefragging") if it was purposely done. Anticheats should ONLY catch hacks but sometimes they step over the line.

Most anticheats scan the players console for 'questionable' commands. For instance, 'No-Smoke' tweak comes in handy because it does just that... removes smoke. 'No rocket-trails' does just that. It's considered a cheat in Rocket Arena. In games where Stealth is key, 'No shadow' tweak can be considered the same. UTPURE actually disables these tweaks by default so they don't work to begin with. Just like behindview is disabled in 99% of sniper servers through the use of a mutator much like NoDodge.

The truth is tastes vary from gametype to gametype. I run mainly freestyle servers and, in freestyle, the 'No Shadow' tweak isn't going to save your ass at all and it won't help either. We mainly play small, well lit maps however this command is not allowed on our camping server. The bottom line is that it's up to a particular clan whether or not something is allowed on their server.

~Johnny Jones

I am not going to into a pissing contest with you abberation.I or ZSZ is not the one who started this.As always i ask: Show proof not words...

If i called for something i guarantee you a DOU member did something and if i was kicked as you say: It is because i say how i see.You can not make double standard just because you are a member of the clan and guests do stuff like you do,can you?

I have been on your ventrillo few times...And i have heard few of you team up on a guest because he was winning.And i have seenheard you kick players because he was winning,even tho there was no proof of ANY KIND that he was cheating...He/she was simply better than you and everytime you or someone else tried to close revenge he got you first.

Have you seen me write these things down before?Like you accuse me of sayingdoing anything against DOU?

And as this post started all a guest wanted to know was what no shadow was and all.ZSZ s name being brought by your head admin.Again if that was not the situation i could care less... I andor ZSZ have nothing to prove and nothing to be ashamed of.We never told a guest (i am old enough to fuck your mother and obama!)

You either need2 grow up or just shut up or better yet: Put your proofs down and let them speak...

I am sorry to Wave who tried to see it the way it should ve been seen and very many other DOU members that this topic took a turn in this direction...

Again i kindly ask:Please leave ZSZ s name alone and do whatever the hell you want with this mod whether it is a cheat or not which i think its as bad as a friggin aimbot...Have a good day.

PS:for any1 who wants proof to what i say. Here is my msn messenger:scay8@msn.com

When I kicked you under all those aliases I had no idea it was you.

(I could post your IP here but I wont do that to you)

Peoriajuggalo

Peoria

Fatos

NUKE_usa- I didnt kick this name

Im sure there were more...

But all the bullshit you pulled and didnt respond to any warnings or mouthed off deserved a kick. Then under your own name you pulled the same shit and thought you were above reproach just because you had the tag on.

The old enough to fuck your mother comment. Yes that was me a long time ago. I was sure you would get it since you and other players were making comments from the movie super troopers which is where that came from. I apologize for hurting your little feelings. I was under the impression you had a sense of humor but I have come to find out that is not the case.

Why do not stop this topic?

Reading differents forums (and this topic also) I believe is very clear that the game have the command. So, is a legitimate mod, and, on the other hand, some people had considered that this command gives some advantages to the players, that may be considered like a cheat.

Probably Jasmin, me and others who were ignorant of all this, now we know enough.

Everything else is unnecessary... because the discussions will be eternal...

Personally I think that behind all this are the well known enemies of our clan (not the clan ZSZ) but HH, Mimetic, and the SS guys who likes to create these situations to make some sense of their sad life of useless.

Perhaps we could have a more serious discussion of this and more technical, so we can resolve some doubts. For example about two years ago I played in the ZSZ server many times. I do not remember having a problem but I can not know if I was registered as a cheater.

Or, on the other hand, can I voluntarily disable that command of my game console? and so on.